<p>Don’t read much, eh?</p>
<p>[Was</a> the 2004 Election Stolen? : Rolling Stone](<a href=“Music News”>Music News)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Yeah. Best estimates are as low as 5 years. But since all the available equipment for offshore drilling is being used, most are 10-15. </p>
<p>The only positive effect all this talk about drilling does is lower the price on the speculation market, not on the actual market. </p>
<p>That said, I’m quite happy Obama has shifted to allow for drilling as long as it’s attached to a comprehensive effort to end our use of oil. Sort of a last stand for oil - plus it helps him get some independent votes.</p>
<p>I, too, was getting p.o.'d at Obama for going on and on with his lofty poetic language. But, the closer I looked, the more i realized the guy has had a very comprehensive plan of action all along. My frustration mounted knowing how many great ideas were in his plan and not seeing him convey any of them. Then I realized he was conveying them, but the news just wasn’t covering boring speeches about tax policy, only his sermon type speeches.</p>
<p>Lol, oh yeah Rolling Stone! Gnarly! I heard they weren’t slanted at all. Good find, dude.</p>
<p>Laugh all you want at the Rolling Stone name, but their political reporting has never been grounded in anything other than reality. There is nothing untrue in Kennedy’s article.</p>
<p>If people don’t want to believe something, the first line of defense is to discredit the messenger. If one can successfully do that, then the message is indirectly discredited without ever having to be addressed.</p>
<p>To the person who said that there are more women than black people,
Women vote a little more often as Dems than Reps. Blacks vote overwhelmingly for Dems. With Obama, black and youth voter turn out goes up which can help swing some close states like Ohio, Virginia, and Colorado. Hillary might have added a few women votes, but if she pulled out the come from behind win she would have alienated blacks which would have hurt a lot in some key states. I personally believe that all of these problems could have been avoided if all the primaries were on the same day. Then there would be no up and down and the states of Iowa and New Hampshire wouldn’t have more say than states like Pennsylvania and Ohio.</p>
<p>Two things:</p>
<p>1st on Obama: I hate Obama more than any candidate I can remember. In fact, if given a choice between Obama and GWB, I’d have to think long and hard (and I’m an atheist and a libertarian, not an Evangelical). But I must concede that Obama is an extremely intelligent man. I don’t care that he got into Harvard Law. I’ve read significant amounts of his autobiographies and while the ideas and associations he presents are extremely troublesome, the prose and profundities are impressive.</p>
<p>2nd to applejack on spirituality: Look this debate can go on for days, but here’s an interesting group of experiments occurring. Turns out the spiritual and/or religious experiences one engages in may have a physical explanation. A researcher in Canada is able to produce religious or paranormal experiences in 80% of patients simply by outfitting them with a helmet fitted with magnetic fields. He turns on the helmet and induces small magnetic fields around the head and after some time, a large majority of people report feeling a presence in the room, an out of body experience, etc. It’s also interesting to note that temporal lobe epileptics have extremely high incidences of religious fervor or religious experiences (not surprisingly Joan of Arc was an epileptic). So your “personal experiences at the forefront of spirituality” could be hallucinations that you interpret as something bigger. Hell, I’ve had plenty of them. One night in my dorm room I could sworn a ghost was leaning over my bed at night.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Which key states?? I disagree with you, because the key states that a Democrat needs to win are Pennsylvania, Ohio, Florida, etc. In all of these states, white working class people and older white people (people likely to feel jipped that Obama won the nomination) make up a huge portion of the population.</p>
<p>The black vote is more significant in the south - states that McCain will win because of the overwhelming number of white conservatives.</p>
<p>How many cool men are hillary supporters?</p>
<p>At least 2 on this board.</p>
<p>In the last election there were rumors of blacks being disenfranchised in Ohio. Blacks are just as important for a win in Ohio as are whites. Also, with Obama on the ticket states like North Carolina and Georgia might enter play. While it is unlikely Obama will win them, it still forces McCain and the RNC to spend money there rather than on more important states like Florida and Ohio. Hillary probably would have put different states in play. Either way I would say Obama brings out the vote in groups like blacks and youth who tend to come out in lower numbers than old white people. If those two groups came out to vote more in 2004, Howard Dean might have been the nominee instead of Kerry. If those two groups come out stronger than they did in primaries, it could help out a lot.</p>
<p>One cool thing I saw on MSNBC today was that in the 26 states + DC where people have to register with parties Dems have gained 200,000 registered voters while Reps have lost over 1.4 million registered voters. It’s really shaping up for Obama to win, or at least it looks that way.</p>
<p>Black voters are not as important in Ohio as white voters. Ohio is a very blue-collar state, and blue-collar white workers can go either Democratic or Republican. They are really a crucial block of voters for either candidate to win over in order to be successful, and there’s no denying that Hillary is much stronger with these voters than Obama.</p>
<p>Also, Republicans have lost registration numbers because many Republicans switched their registration to Democrats in the primary season after McCain became the Republican nominee (they wanted a say in our primaries). I don’t know that’s necessarily an indicator of 1.4 million Republicans switching their support from McCain to Obama. Also, things look good for Obama - just like they looked good for Kerry and Gore. I hope this election has a better outcome than those, though.</p>
<p>
I’m skeptical</p>
<p>Hillary may have done better with blue collar white voters, but would she have done good enough to win? We’ll never know, or maybe we will in 2012.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t say 1.4 million Reps switched to supporting Obama. I think it just shows that there is a lot more excitment on the Dem’s side which might translate to getting the vote out better.</p>
<p>
I really felt that Kerry didn’t articulate himself well enough, or as well as he should have while he was being attacked. He was called a flip flopper for voting for a bill then voting against it. When he gave an explanation on a Sunday morning talk show before the flip flopper attacks, I felt his explanation made senese. However, it just never seemed like he stood up to attacks as well as he should have and he put himself out there to be made fun of. Gore might have had similar problems with being misquoted saying that he invented the internet and other stuff (though I don’t remember 100% because I was 10).
If Obama can stand up to attacks better than Kerry did, it’ll be a huge advantage.</p>
<p>^^
I think Obama’s doing well with the childish attacks. Look at how people like Hannity and McCain are taking the tire gauge comment way out of the context of a woman asking him what an individual can do to help with the oil crisis. </p>
<p>Obama layed out a comprehensive and progressive energy policy, then said the Republicans seem to take a lot of pride in being ignorant. Brilliant.</p>
<p>Then a Republican plant tried to call Obama out on not saying the Pledge of Allegiance at a gathering. Obama had the guy lead it, putting his hand over his heart, flag pin a waving. </p>
<p>The “Republican attack machine” is growing increasingly childish and baseless, and only but the most ignorant should be swayed. The more I see Obama react under pressure, the more I realize he is more than ready to lead our nation. </p>
<p>I was very skeptical of him, but now I’m on board. I think Hillary and the Clinton machine prepared him well and he should be forever grateful.</p>
<p>Dontno - your experiment assumes a division between science and mysticism, and suggests that the magnets create the experiences rather than simply serve as conduits for them.</p>
<p>When I say I’ve worked extensively on the frontiers of science and spirituality, I’m not talking about getting shivers in my bed at night. I’m talking about pragmatic creations. Please - seriously - stop arguing with me. I understand your perspective. It’s a fine place to be. But you simply don’t understand. End.</p>
<p>dontno:
“Hell, I’ve had plenty of them. One night in my dorm room I could sworn a ghost was leaning over my bed at night.”</p>
<p>hahaha me too! was it in the townhouses?</p>
<p>^^^</p>
<p>No it was in the now demolished Class of 26 Dorm. I don’t actually believe it was a ghost. It was an example of easily the mind can play tricks on a person, no matter how much of a skeptic he is. </p>
<p>applejack:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m sure Occam would agree.</p>
<p>If you want to find the soul, look in your Bible or The Secret, not a physics textbook. But you’re right, this is going nowhere.</p>
<p>[P.U.M.A</a> / Hillary Clinton](<a href=“http://www.puma08.com/tag/hillary-clinton/]P.U.M.A”>http://www.puma08.com/tag/hillary-clinton/)</p>
<p>Yeah! PUMA baby! lol</p>
<p>Hate to revive this thread…but honestly…</p>
<p>Statements on Georgia vs. Russia:</p>
<p>Obama:</p>
<p>“I strongly condemn the outbreak of violence in Georgia, and urge an immediate end to armed conflict. Now is the time for Georgia and Russia to show restraint, and to avoid an escalation to full scale war. Georgia’s territorial integrity must be respected. All sides should enter into direct talks on behalf of stability in Georgia, and the United States, the United Nations Security Council, and the international community should fully support a peaceful resolution to this crisis.”</p>
<hr>
<p>Hillary:</p>
<p>"I am deeply disturbed by the latest Russian actions regarding Georgia, and Russia’s broader policies towards its neighbors. </p>
<p>Several weeks ago I called on NATO to extend a Membership Action Plan (MAP) to Georgia and Ukraine at the Bucharest Summit. I emphasized that this move would be a litmus test for the success of President Bush’s leadership of the trans-Atlantic community. My support for MAP was based on the need to send a positive signal to Tbilisi and Kyiv to encourage them to stay on track with their positive reforms as well as to send a signal of our concern to Moscow about the future security of these countries. </p>
<p>I deeply regret President Bush’s inability to convince our NATO allies to take this action. This is the first time in memory a U.S. President has traveled to a NATO summit and failed to achieve his publicly proclaimed goals. </p>
<p>Now the Russian government has taken advantage of the lack of unity coming out of the Bucharest Summit to further ratchet up the pressure on young democracies on its borders. Moscow’s actions this week to strengthen ties with the separatist regions of Abkhazia and South Ossetia undermine the territorial integrity of the state of Georgia and are clearly designed to destabilize the government of President Mikheil Saakashvili. </p>
<p>Georgia is a small democratic state in a turbulent region. It must not be allowed to be undermined. Two weeks ago President Bush sat with President Putin in Sochi just a few kilometers away from the Georgian border. He prided himself on his close working relationship with Vladimir Putin. President Bush should call on the Russian leadership to immediately rescind these steps. </p>
<p>I also call on President Bush to immediately send a senior representative to Tbilisi to show our support for the government of Georgia. The United States should raise this matter in the United Nations Security Council, in a special 26+1 session of NATO’s North Atlantic Council (NAC), and in the NATO-Russia Council. Russia needs to hear a unified message from the United States and our European partners about our shared commitment to Georgia’s security and territorial integrity. </p>
<p>These are not the only Russian moves that I have found troubling. Senior Russian officials have engaged in a pressure campaign to prevent Ukraine from seeking deeper ties with NATO. President Putin even raised the prospect of retargeting nuclear missiles against Ukraine. </p>
<p>I am not advocating, nor do I envisage, a return to a new Cold War with Russia, which I believe ought to remain in the G-8, where the United States and its allies can together address our growing list of concerns with Moscow. But the current Administration’s mishandling of Russian relations has contributed to Moscow’s belief that it can do as it pleases. America and its allies can and must do better. "</p>
<hr>
<p>Again - Hillary gave a clear and precise plan, Obama said something that didn’t even make sense. Georgia needs to show restraint? Russia ATTACKED Georgia and he places blame on both…and his solution is…for them to “show restraint?” </p>
<p>Woooow…THANKS Obama…you’re SO good at this…</p>
<p>Just another example of why you can’t expect us Hillary supporters, who supported such a brilliant and capable leader, can just switch over to an idiot like Obama because he’s “of the same party.” There’s no comparison between the two - Hillary even TRIED to do something before it happened at the Bucharest Summit.</p>