Depends on what you think you are paying for. Here is a response I wrote in another similar thread:
Roughly, what parents and students think that are paying for can be put into a few broad categories:
A. The experience, which include instructional format (in-person versus distance, class size, use of TAs, etc.), the residential versus commuter experience, “cultural” aspects of the college and the students, and the notion that it is desirable to live in some other part of the country instead of staying at home. On these forums, the notion of “fit” seems to focus heavily on this category.
B. Course and curriculum content. I.e. are the desired major and courses available, how many elective courses and in-major subareas are offered, and do the courses (in or out of major) cover the bare minimum or do they go beyond the bare minimum (but not so far beyond that the student would have difficulty passing – not everyone can “drink from the fire hose”)? Also, if the major is associated with a professional goal that requires a licensing exam (e.g. nursing, accounting, actuarial, civil engineering, etc.), how well does it prepare students for that exam?
C. Other factors, primarily prestige and how college name affects post-graduation employment and education goals.
Most college choice discussion on these forums seems to focus on A and C above, with B being considered, but often to a lesser level. It does mean that for parents and student focused on A when it comes to college choice, spending one or more semesters at home doing distance learning is more likely to make the parent and student question what the value is in paying anything more than the minimum (at, for example, a community college or in-state public university, or a full ride merit scholarship university for the students with the strongest high school credentials).
It also means that colleges that market themselves primarily on A because they are not particularly distinguished in either B or C are likely to be hurt the most due to the push toward distance education.
I think a lot of kids will be taking a semester or year at a local school and transferring the credits to their ‘main’ school.
My daughter did this for a summer session (before Corona). She took 9 credits with 3 being online. It worked very well and was much cheaper. Her main school accepted all the transfer credits. If she were still in school, taking classes at the local university would be her first and best option.
She took one online class at her school and it actually cost more than the in-person classes as there was a ‘remote-learning’ fee. If all classes are taken online, then there is still the remote-learning fee, but the student doesn’t pay the on-campus student fees like rec center, campus clinic, student activities.
We cannot yet predict when current restrictions on our campuses will ease, so we are moving forward to provide a consistent academic experience for the summer term.
The choice is 1) Stanford (nearly full pay); or 2) Wake Forest - Stamps Scholarship. Both are such great options. For scholarship—she will attend immediately, there is no gap. But, if you are paying nearly full freight for 1) do you gap
@twoinanddone a lot of colleges don’t take transfer credits. I don’t believe that’s allowed at Bowdoin. What he can do is take an online class just to take one. Maybe a type of class he wouldn’t take on campus like a coding camp or something and it could still go on his resume.
Is this even an option, for a large group of students to take a semester off? I just don’t see colleges letting half their class or more not pay anything for a full semester and still maintain their standing with the college? They have faculty salaries to pay, admin costs, maintenance, utilities, etc and their endowments got hit hard and charitable giving in the near term will also take a hit (i.e. they are bleeding money)
With that said, if they do have a semester or, god forbid, a full year of online instruction I would hope that students would get some sort of tuition discount (10%, 25%, 50%?), but maybe I’m delusional At the end of the day, college are big businesses…
I really don’t think a college can say pay up or you’re dismissed. Not without a LOT of bad blood they do not want. I’m leaning towards believing that the best LACs with the highest endowments will figure out how best to serve their students because they can afford to make choices that other colleges might not. Time will tell. I’m just saying, if places like GT and Davidson are saying they will be generous with giving gap years to incoming freshmen then they will likely be generous with a current student in good standing who chooses to take time off.
But will that many students want to take a gap semester or year when typical gap semester or year activities like employment are likely to be hard to get?
how do we even know that things will not still be online in January , if the supposed vaccine (which I dont believe will be the miracle everything is thinking) is 12 + months away. If we cant be on campus in the fall, why the winter? What will all these kids do, even if taking a GAP year if nothing is available to them? no jobs, nothing. Everyone here is already assuming that fall is cancelled. Summer is already cancelled it seems. AS humans do we twiddle our thumbs for a year plus? I would assume by the end of the summer testing is available and some treatings, similar to Flu/Tamiflu. And that the death rate would be similar to the Flu. At least I hope. The Flu shot is not even 100%.
If things continue until the fall The world as we know it will never be the same in our lifetime.
I’m wondering if college location will factor into colleges decisions to allow kids back on campus? For example, Missouri, New Mexico, South Carolina, even Maine have not had any new positive cases in the last 24 hours. If it stays like this for the next 4 or 5 months wouldn’t they be more inclined to open their campuses up in the fall? Maybe not for colleges in big cities like NYC, LA, or Boston? At a certain point, we are going to have to allow the nation’s residents to move freely about, albeit, in a more restrictive environment than a month ago.
I like this approach. Make students test before coming to campus (to see if they have the virus or already had it showing an antibody), maybe set-up secondary testing/screening while on campus. Isolate, quarantine as needed.
With D20, she was considering whether or not to get a dorm single (Duke assigns you a random roommate which she was a little concerned). Maybe a single would be preferred now in the event of being quarantined, she won’t infect a roommate and vice versa.
As I type this I’m thinking how absolutely surreal this whole situation is…
If they are easily available by Aug, I do think you could do antibody testing and COVID testing to screen students, faculty and staff at a college prior to returning. (Caveat: we still don’t know right now if having antibodies equates to immunity – that’s a question we need answered ASAP).
Then, students can’t leave campus after arrival + practice social distancing (i.e., no parties, big gatherings). Hate to say it – but no sports since that involves travel?
The smaller the college and the more who live on campus, the more feasible this would be. My D is at Davidson w/ 97% of students living on campus, for example.
Combined with presumably better COVID treatments by August and, we hope, reduced pressure on hospital capacity. . . it feels like at least a possibility. Maybe Jan. is more likely – I don’t know. I’m obviously trying to find a path forward that gets my D back to a regular life. Could be unrealistic…
But we also know how risk adverse institutions are (thanks, lawyers - my hubby included!!).
So I have a friend that kid got a 34 act and 1520 sat so basically the same. She has not taken it with her school yet and that is being pushed back to the fall.
So do you think she will have an advantage applying compared to kids that have not? She’s an all “A” student with 7AP classes etc etc.
Hard to be holistic when they have one kids grades and Stats staring them in the face vs someone without them.
@Knowsstuff some colleges have been doing TO for a long time and figure out how to accept or deny kids with and without stats. I don’t think AOs sit down with two apps and compare them. That’s not how it works. Each app is read, usually more than once, and a decision is made based on what’s there and not what is not. I’m really not liking how this TO option seems to be bringing out the competition in posters today. There’s a lot of “my kid got a high score so that should be counted and he should get in before a student without a score” which is all kinds of wrong. TO isn’t a gimmick. Schools are doing it because even some very bright kids literally may not have a test score to give, especially if ACT or SAT can’t give tests until deep into fall. That part is unknown. We have no idea at all if/when there will be another standardized test. With summer programs falling like dominos, I’m guessing there will be no SAT or ACT this summer.
From Moody’s tonight: Cares Act provides modest support for universities dealing with Coronavirus
Originally published on 01 April 2020
On 27 March, US President Donald Trump signed into law the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act), the
federal aid package, which creates a $31 billion Education Stabilization Fund. Approximately $14 billion will go directly to higher
education, $3 billion to governors for use at their discretion for K-12 and higher education, and the remainder to fund K-12 education.
The CARES Act is mildly credit positive for the higher education sector, enhancing prospects for retention of financially at-risk students
and providing funding to address a portion of the sector’s immediate budgetary impact from the coronavirus. However, the sector
continues to face significant financial challenges heading into fiscal year 2021, including potential losses of tuition revenue, state
funding, endowment income and gifts.
Funds directly appropriated by the CARES Act for higher education are equal to a very small portion of expenditures borne by colleges
and universities. For fiscal 2020, we estimate the sector would have incurred about $640 billion in expenditures before the impact
of the coronavirus.1
Of the $14 billion allocated to higher education, universities need to use at least half for emergency financial aid
to students for housing, food, child care and other costs. The remainder will offset the lost revenue and increased expenses due to
coronavirus. Assuming half is allocated to financial aid, the remainder is equal to around 1% of total university expenditures. The lost
revenue and increase in expenses will likely be in excess of that amount. Consequently, we still expect sectorwide financial performance
to tighten in fiscal 2020.
The US Department of Education will be in charge of distributing the CARES Act funds under a formula that benefits universities
with a high enrollment of Pell Grant-eligible students. Included in the approximately $14 billion for universities is about $1 billion for
historically black colleges and universities (HBCUs) and other minority-serving institutions, and $350 million for institutions particularly
hard hit by the coronavirus.
It is uncertain how governors will allocate the $3 billion the CARES Act provides them to appropriate between higher education and
K-12 education. The legislation contains a provision that requires states to maintain existing funding levels to be able to allocate their
portion of the $3 billion. This may be difficult as states face their own coronavirus-related budget constraints.
In addition to the funding appropriated for HBCUs and other minority-serving institutions, the legislation gives HBCUs the opportunity
to defer payments on loans taken out under the Title III program, which will provide some some cash flow relief.
The legislation calls for Howard University (Ba1 negative) and Gallaudet University (A2 stable) which are private, federally chartered
universities, to receive direct appropriations of $13 million and $7 million, respectively. The $13 million for Howard equals about 1.5%
of its $819.7 million of fiscal 2019 expenses, while the $7 million for Gallaudet equals about 3.7% of its $188 million.
On March 18, we revised the higher education sector outlook to negative. The negative outlook reflects both the near-term operational
and financial challenges of adapting to the coronavirus outbreak, only partially mitigated by the governmental response. The negative
outlook also incorporates significant uncertainty related to key revenue streams for fiscal 2021, as well as potential balance-sheet
deterioration due to financial market volatility.
Mississippi State University also announced today that all summer courses will be online. They normally do not charge out of state tuition for online course and charge by credit hour. I’m under the impression that all courses including those listed to be taught on campus will be at the traditional online rate making it more affordable for students.
They have a FB live parent discussion forum tomorrow for parents of incoming freshman so I’m curious to hear what will be said about June new student orientation.
In SC here, and S19 attends UofSC. We have had positives in the last 24 hours. Ours were slow to come in because…testing way behind. Surprise. They had 2 positives at a facility in our town this past week, over 30 people who were exposed to the positives and have symptoms but no test kits available for them. I think the curve in SC is just later than NYC and other places.
This morning, the Maine CDC reported there are 376 coronavirus cases, up from 344 yesterday (Wednesday). I urge everyone to only rely on credible sources, such as your state CDC, the federal CDC, or the Johns Hopkins Center for Systems Science and Engineering global map.
At the end of the day, college are big businesses…