Thank you. Well, that’s a bummer, because she is definitely applying to Mudd. I guess it will just be an interesting application season next year. Ugh.
Extremely high scores are a necessary but not sufficient property of a student ready for Caltech (35-36)/MIT (34-36) rigor (because, frankly, ACT/SAT are just very easy tests when measured by the world standards).
If these two schools were to go test optional, not only am I concerned that it will diminish our younger’s chances of following in the elder’s footsteps, but also that the resulting peer group may end up being significantly less hardcore.
@amsunshine - He was trying to explain some of the tools that admissions officers are thinking about using to help evaluate applicants who do not submit testing data. It is not a one size fits all approach, but is one way they can assess an applicant for which they do not have testing information. At our small school (60-70 per grade), the college counselors know the students well. I assume that admissions folks will be leaning on counselors at smaller schools to fill in gaps, something that might not be necessary for kids from larger high schools. I guess my point is that admissions folks are already thinking about ways to address the lack of testing information they will be dealing with in the fall.
None of the standardized tests can “distinguish between students of handling Caltech rigor versus some other highly selective college rigor.” SAT Subject tests, however, are even poorer indicators as they’re just too easy for good students to get perfect scores, even without preparation. So, I’m not surprised that Caltech, followed by MIT, dropped those tests, even though I’m not a proponent of TO policies. Tests, however imperfect, do serve the purpose as a common yardstick to measure the degree of discrepancies and inconsistencies in course grades across different high schools.
deleted – wrong thread!
I don’t agree. I think Purdue’s decision is premature and rash. Not every clear and well-communicated decision is a good one.
One may disagree with it, but Purdue’s decision is consistent with prevailing public health advice about moving the state into the containment stage and reflects accurately the available medical data about morbidity rates.
It also bordered on political (not to mention suspicious timing), and some of the suggested mitigation approaches didn’t appear to be particularly well though-out (isolate confirmed contacts over, but not under age 35 - what’s the logic in that?)
Yes, schools that go to online instruction next Fall may struggle, but consequences for schools that have an on-campus outbreak will be catastrophic.
@AlmostThere2018 This is getting a bit off topic but average ACT for Pitt engineering is listed at 31-34 and so far they are not test optional. Right now this seems like a reach for your son.
Edited to add that apparently the comment I was replying to was moved elsewhere, but I don’t know where so I’ll leave this. The poster I was answering is tagged. Everyone else please ignore.
Why catastrophic? For young people, (yes, under 35) fortunately, the consequences are minor and compare to the seasonal flu. Parents sometimes get excited about that too, but not usually. There are tens of thousands of students remaining on campus right now all over the country. It is not catastrophic.
I guess I am ok with that so long as they still have a field for AIME scores on their applications 
The usual standardized tests in the US are targeted for the broad middle of college-bound high school students, rather than the top end, where their ceilings are too low to be useful for super-high rigor colleges like Caltech. There is not enough of a market to make standardized tests that would be that useful for Caltech. The other super-selective colleges probably don’t want higher ceiling standardized tests, probably because their donor kids, athletes, etc. would then have more trouble showing high end standardized test scores.
The broad middle colleges will continue to admit primarily based on academic achievement criteria, regardless of whether ACT and SAT scores are available and included in those criteria.
That is right on the nose, @ucbalumnus! :lol:
Because of the novel coronavirus, this year’s college admissions would have to be different, but I do hope temporary adoptions of TO policies by many colleges will indeed be temporary. Colleges do need some objective measures along with more subjective measures to gauge applicants’ qualifications, and more importantly, relative strengths and aptitude in academic subject matters that will be relevant to their performances in college and beyond.
Curricular rigor (particularly at Caltech) probably deters a lot of non-hardcore applicants. Also, Caltech, MIT, and Harvey Mudd presumably realize that their admissions need to more strongly select for academic capability (regardless of criteria used), since they have fewer places for a donor kid or athlete who falls short academically to hide, compared to other super-selective colleges.
Caltech, MIT and Mudd are very self selecting schools. Kids know those school are extremely rigorous, so most kids with less than stellar stats don’t bother to apply. In contrast, there are a number of top 20 schools where the hard part is just getting in, so many kids are willing to take a shot and apply.
Yes, their applicants are a self-selected group, but I am sure a fair share of them still has ACT<34.
I hope these school continue to look at objective measures.
To be fair, the Purdue letter clearly said it is a preliminary plan, subject to change, and invited input.
There’s no perfect way to handle this. Schools that don’t lay out a plan will be accused of secrecy and lack of planning. Schools that do lay out a plan will be accused of jumping the gun and overpromising.
Nobody said they were getting rid of the ACT. I’m guessing the majority of kids who score 34 plus get 800s on math 2 and some science subject test, again, rendering them unnecessary.
I have to say, I’ve been very happy about schools now ask students to self report, and then send scores after acceptance. It saves hassle and money.