Please don’t respond to this post in this thread. Those responses are exactly what I would like to see stop. And this will be the only post I make if this type.
Can you folks who want to argue and debate and point fingers please start another thread? Call it the Covid19 Arguing Thread or something.
This thread was informative but now is littered with other posts just pointing the finger at others…including other posters.
I, for one, am sick of it.
I like the updates about what is happening, but not the other stuff.
Photo caption: A butcher shop in the Brooklyn borough of New York shows a “Closed” sign, limiting customers to three at a time. Gov. Andrew Cuomo is ordering all nonessential businesses to close, in an escalation of the state’s attempts to contain the COVID-19 pandemic.
But… it doesn’t mention at all the second sign below which reads: DO NOT TOUCH THE CAT! -Management
Ohio (like much of America) is filled with households with pets/service animals, farmers with livestock, hunters, zoos, hikers, etc. Collectively we interact with animals millions/billions of times a day. Sanitation mitigates the risk of novel zoonotic diseases but the risk will never be eliminated as long as we have people and animals sharing a planet and crossing paths.
I think in China and in that region it’s both. Very expensive exotic meats in city markets. And mountain village markets, e.g. in Vietnam (and China) where it’s just hunted food on sale.
Don’t imagine that deer or ‘hawgs’ in US are any better microbiologically than a civet cat, etc. Any wild animal can be a reservoir for viruses. Even domestic chicken markets can.
There are some people in US who hunt for meat to save money. But most I bet pay a huge price per pound in hunting costs. I know a guy with a ranch in Texas who charges $2000 for people to shoot up to five deer, that’s expensive meat.
And do not give venison to a food bank! I can’t believe they are irresponsible enough to accept it.
Not sure how to adequately convey the socioeconomic gulf here, but people who are hunting (or trapping) meat for food are not the ones paying for a private ranch experience. Even here in our wealthy coastal SW FL community, people “forage” - mainly fishing but also some hunting. And unfortunately, it’s more than a few when you aggregate all the people across the US who are in that situation.
In the US, the biggest source of trichinosis infection in people isn’t from pork, it’s from bear meat. And parts of the South still see new leprosy cases mostly from people who have handled/eaten armadillos. But yes, any animal - even domesticated ones can carry viruses.
@MYOS1634 , thanks for the virtual hug. I’m glad that the state-wide order makes you feel better; I cannot say the same. Unlike you, I don’t see any way for the order to be widely enforced. Our LEOs are already busy, and there simply aren’t enough to truly enforce the order. Think of automobile speeding - it’s been against the law pretty much forever, but is still rampant. We see speeders constantly, but how often do we see someone being pulled over? Similarly, I think the stay-at-home order can only be sporadically enforced. I think people who were already following the guidelines will of course continue to do so. I know for my family, the order will make zero difference in what we’re doing. Unfortunately, I think those who ignored the guidelines will in large part ignore the order.
Also, I’m concerned that the order may actually make things worse in some areas where local orders were already in place. For instance, I’ve seen that DeSantis intends to consider religious services essential. The local orders I’ve checked did not do this. I read the entire state-wide order last night, and it seems to say that it supersedes local orders only in cases where the local orders were more lenient. I hope that’s true, but I suspect many will make the interpretation that the state-wide order supersedes in all cases.
That example of Albany Georgia - where COVID spread after an infected person attended a large funeral - is interesting. Similar stories are popping up around southeastern Michigan too.
Several members of the Detroit Police Department may have been infected at a pancake breakfast:
Why the snark? Happy to hear from other governors so we know (straight from them) what’s going on in their state. You can easily scroll on by governor summaries you don’t want to see. I like to skim it - don’t have time to watch everything on TV. Would love to have a summary here of Massachusetts or other states I’m interested in.
*yes, I’m old. The nurse handed out small business cards with a molded impression of what a positive TB result looked like. Ah, the little mysteries of childhood that time solves. https://www.cdc.gov/tb/topic/testing/tbtesttypes.htm
I wanted to point out that exotic animals are not the only threat. After learning more about influenza, I feel like pigs are pretty terrifying. Because pigs and humans can easily infect each other with viruses, and pigs can also be infected with avian viruses, pigs are particularly dangerous. They are like mixing bowl in which avian viruses and human viruses trade segments, and then jump back to humans.
Right now, scientists think that birds (wild and domesticated) can infect humans who have close contact with birds with avian influenzas. Some humans get very sick, but the avian flu does not seem transmissible from human to human (thank goodness). However, that can change when a pig gets infected with both an avian virus and a human one and the viruses mix and match segments. Pigs seem resistant to these viruses and rarely die of avian or human flu, but because humans are in close contact with pigs which have in turn been in close contact with birds, the situation is dangerous. If there is also a swine virus involved, there can be triple reassortment.
Many suspect that this is what happened in 1918, “There is no direct evidence that reassortment events leading to previous pandemic viruses (such as those of the 1918, 1957 or 1968 pandemics) occurred in pigs. However, reassortment of avian, human and swine viruses in the pig and subsequent molecular adaptation of the reassortant swine influenza viruses have been described. These could result in infection of humans with swine-derived reassortant viruses harboring the ability to cause human-to-human transmission.”
As far as where the next human influenza pandemic will originate, scientists are not sure. They do know that avian viruses are endemic in many wild and migratory birds, so they are highly mobile like humans. “The index case (patient zero) probably linking a wild bird, chicken or domestic duck with a pig and/or a person could be anywhere in the world, but a Southeast Asian “wet market” is most likely to be the locale in which the next pandemic virus is generated. However, recent events resulting in the establishment and isolation of a reassorted, mammalian-adapted H2N3 viruses from pigs in the US should remind scientists, medical doctors, veterinarians and farmers that the creation of novel reassortant swine influenza viruses with zoonotic and pandemic potential could also happen in modern swine facilities in the backyard of a highly industrialized country in North America or Western Europe.”
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2702078/
For me, this underscores the need for constant research into understanding, treatments and vaccines for potential viruses.
There were a lot of mini-outbreaks and many of them happened in February or even the first week in March when we still didn’t understand the scope of this thing. My frustration lies with those who are still ignoring the danger, such as in the case of the idiot UT Austin students or governors who refuse to ban large in-person religious services.
There are a lot of people in the US and the rest of the world that go hungry from all areas and all walks of life. Sad but true. Subsistence hunting is one solution. Most people who don’t understand this grew-up with enough money not to worry about food. Not everyone grew-up that way.
All animals can carry diseases whether they’re wild or farmed. Plenty of E Coli examples from commercial agriculture and farming. Some of the “organic” solutions like farm raised fish aren’t necessarily good for the environment. Life is risky.
As far as the food bank taking venison it has to come from a certified processor (butcher). Tell the families that don’t get enough protein in their diet that it’s an awful idea to donate venison. Some people pay large $ for “hunting” ranches. The deer I donate are from a deer reduction program in the suburbs.
Really and truly, responsibly harvested deer are safe and nutritious to eat.
Maybe one day we’ll have an America that doesn’t need food banks of any kind, but probably not in my lifetime. In the meantime, food banks get donations of canned goods, but very rarely meat. Venison is a welcome gift. Some hunters eat it because they enjoy it, some donate it.
In my suburb, the deer that are culled every year by professional sharp-shooters are butchered and donated.
This may not be the culture everyone on this board grew up with, but we can all learn from others’ experiences.
Genuine question. Why can’t little Suzy go for a walk with her boyfriend as long as they follow social distancing guidelines? I ask because I indicated to DS18 that it would be ok for him to go for a walk with his gf as long as they keep their distance. He’s surprisingly been feeling anxiety about this situation ever since we picked him up from university 2 weeks ago now. He’s complained a few times of feeling lightheaded with a racing heart and having difficulty catching his breath when he goes to bed. It seems to me he’s been having some “mild” panic attacks and feeling some generalized anxiety which is highly unusual for him. He’s generally very even keeled and doesn’t get overly stressed as a general rule. I didn’t think there would be any harm in him and his gf going for walks together.
Venison processors in my area donate the processing if the meat is going to a food pantry. I live where many, many people hunt deer and eat venison. I’m not a big fan of the straight cuts, but it’s fine in chili, sloppy joe, spaghetti sauce, etc. The jerky is excellent.
It is not expensive to hunt after the initial set up costs of camo, orange vest, ammo or arrows.
