I also assume I was exposed, and either had a mild case or I was asymptomatic. A test I hope to have next week should shed some light on this. I’m not concerned about getting it - though I will be if the antibody test is negative - but the experience was a lesson in that scientists are right: we need to practice social distancing, avoid crowds, wear masks and really limit our getting about. It’s the only way to deal with this virus until there’s a vaccine or at least more effective treatment.
Seattle mayor was JUST on MSNBC saying that the people were too close in the parks and she was issuing a mask order and telling people to stay (more) distant.
Can’t use testing/tracking/quarantine until the numbers are low enough to do so and there are enough rapid tests to do so. We let the virus spread undetected and out of control in this country so it seeded too deeply to have numbers go down quickly. But even in Italy, they brought the numbers down enough to start opening. We can, too. the idea isn’t to make it go away completely but to be limited enough to have society operate safely enough. We can get there if people don’t jump the gun.
It wasn’t just flatten the curve, it was get this under enough control so we can reopen the economy. if we don’t, we will have to open and close repeatedly. Many more will die. the economy will be harmed even more.
I look at how many businesses have been able to stay open or reopen in countries that controlled the spread much better than we did. They didn’t have the same impact on the economy we have and they won’t going forward most likely. Having cases be high enough that this disease keeps killing big numbers is not the way to get the economy going again. We should do what is recommended by infectious disease specialists and what we see works elsewhere.
I can’t say which place is better but having been in Maine and Massachusetts a lot, I would say there is a pretty big cultural difference. People from Massachusetts are more aggressive drivers on the whole and the amount of time they would want to wait when they ask for directions would likely be a lot less than the amount of time a Mainer would have no problem waiting. Those are huge generalizations and not true of everyone, of course. But the two areas are very different in my experience. What happens at a 4 way stop in Maine? A round of ‘after you.’ ‘No, after you.’ what happens at a 4 way stop in Mass? How does it feel to a Mainer to drive in more urban areas of Mass? How does it feel for the person from Mass to be in Maine? I only see people do things like cut across 4 lanes of traffic in a split second to get off an exit ramp in Mass, nowhere else I have lived! lol
Again, not saying one place is better than other, but different in my experience.
National jingoism is bad enough LOL, but this state stuff is hilarious, surely many people here will have lived in multiple states and can see how ridiculous it sounds?
Well I live in Phoenix and will readily admit that Phoenix has the worst drivers out of anywhere I’ve lived!
And back on topic, c19 hasn’t been too severe in my area and people are pretty lax about masks. Although curiously I’ve noticed myself actually getting more paranoid about catching c19 as time goes by while the national mood appears to be trending in the opposite direction.
I had a guy in the house briefly today to give me an estimate on a new hvac system and had all the windows wide open with fans blowing for 2 hours after he left. Not looking forward to the all-day job with 3 guys running in and out and temps probably over 100F, because I’m going to keep the house wide open as long as they’re here.
It really irks me how “essential” has given certain businesses the green light while shutting others completely down.
Home Depot, Walmart, Target, Lowe’s, Costco, etc have been given virtual free reign. It’s pretty much business as usual for them in Maryland. The only real difference is masks and social distancing inside.
What really makes them any more safe than other small businesses? In the end you may even be funnelling more people into higher concentrations by only having them open and limiting their hours.
Perhaps allow other small businesses to open. If I’m able to buy from these huge retailers then I should be able to shop with less people at smaller establishments.
In the end I haven’t noticed any reporting of mass outbreaks at any of these large retail businesses. Apparently shopping isn’t that hazardous of an activity. Why aren’t we opening these other businesses back up now? Sure they won’t have a large number of customers right now but that’s what we are striving for anyways is less people in places and some customers is better than what they have.
Just my thoughts. Obviously many can choose to still avoid establishments but many will choose to spread their money around too.
In the end most of us will get this virus sooner or later. I don’t hold out hope for a vaccine, effective or not, anytime soon. It seems like those places where it hits hard initially are eventually better off as the virus then has a much harder time finding new people to infect. Herd immunity is a real option.
Amen to that!
I don’t live in MA anymore. I live in a very rural location hours north. In normal life, I drive my kids all the way down to Boston and back once a week to see their dad for two days (he then drives them back up). The culture where I now live is likely similar to the one in which @MaineLonghorn lives. Much friendlier, laid back, and with far less an emphasis on keeping up with the Joneses in any form or fashion. The kind of place where, in the summer, people go to the grocery store and leave their very young kids and dogs in the car with the air conditioning on, the car unlocked, and the engine running. Where ten-year-olds drive ATVs. Where little kids play outside without much supervision. I see kids in the back of pick-up trucks all the time in the summer. It is laid back all the way to the 1970s here.
The driving culture in MA is so very different! My daughter has a driver’s license, but I still won’t let her drive to Boston (in normal life) until she has had some experience there with me in the car with her. It is a very different kind of driving down there. I told her if she can eventually drive there on a regular basis, then she’ll be able to drive anywhere in the world.
And the resentment toward MA people is palpable up here right now. This is because a lot of MA people are coming up here and then back down every week to access our parks and trails and beaches, in spite of the entire northeast having stay-at-home orders. People came up to their second homes when they were told not to. Etc. The resentment is strong and it is unfortunate…the actions of just a few should not cast a bad light on the entire state. Our own state has plenty of jerks in it too, I can assure you. But the state vs state thing is very real and the locals might be forgetting that when this is all over, we will need the MA tourism dollars…so maybe our state residents should cool it a bit with the outward animosity.
I don’t get this attitude. I don’t check license plates when I go out. We’re all Americans. If our state public beaches and parks are open, they’re open to all. I don’t believe we check ID at the door.
A lot of people have been coming into our area from Downstate to rent apartments because Downstate is a hot spot. It means our landlords won’t have empty properties, our local stores and gas stations will have a little more business, and Downstate may be a little less congested. It may not be enough to matter much and it’s only those with money who are making the move, which makes me sad for those who can’t afford it, but I don’t see it hurting us any.
If they own a home in your state, doesn’t that make them state residents? It may not be their primary residence, but it’s their property and they should be able to use it at their discretion. Is your state refunding property taxes for the period your governor expects people not to use their homes?
For sports fans, it’s nice that you might have baseball to watch in TV come July.
But if that’s OK…why isn’t anyone advocating for the arts? Why can’t the Boston Pops do their annual July 4th concert with no audience (but televised). Why can’t this happen with plays, dance, etc…with some support to fund these.
Sports always seem to take a front seat here. The arts seem to get the shaft.
@MarylandJOE Again, the smaller retailers which sold essential goods were permitted to remain open in all states. It isn’t about how “safe” the business could be in determining whether it is essential- it is about the products sold. Once deemed to be essential, then the safety requirements and limitations on number of customers, senior hours etc came into play.
How far apart would the wind instruments have to be to be sure spittle doesn’t carry from the musicians when playing? Several musicians were discussing this on a recent zoom gathering I was on, and they didn’t have a clear answer. They were noting that this is also affecting decisions about calculating choral groups safe distancing.
Ha, I’m a Texan and always will be. I’m not tied to any northeastern state by jingoism. I’m just stating my observations after living up here for 34 years.
The rate of infection is ten times in Massachusetts what it is in Maine. That’s why we’re nervous about out of state visitors. Especially seeing how they’re behaving in their own states.
(I will admit that driving in Beirut is worse than driving in Boston. I don’t mind driving in Boston anymore. ? )
My kid went to college in Maine. Loved it. Now he lives in Boston. Loves it. He think Boston is a lot like Portland, only bigger.
I agree with a lot of this article:
The subtitle is more telling: “Instead of an all-or-nothing approach to risk prevention, Americans need a manual on how to have a life in a pandemic.”
COVID-19, short of an extremely effective vaccine or cure, is going to cause changes in our way of life. That’s a given. The question is how much of a change we can live with, and reasonably expect others to live with. Especially as those changes aren’t cost-free, and not just in economic terms.
In the shorter-term, some restrictions are tolerable for longer than others, and lifting some restrictions is riskier than lifting others. That’s why there has to be a gradual approach, and I think the poll reflecting that most Americans don’t want to open up is a response to the sense that some states are opening too rapidly. I strongly suspect that if you went restriction by restriction - should public parks be opened, should people be permitted to visit close family members with social distancing, etc – the numbers would look very, very different, and would vary widely depending on the restriction in question.
I really, really hope that COVID treatments will become more effective, that numbers of hospitalizations will decrease, and that there will be a vaccine. But even if none of those things happen, at some point, we have to be permitted to live - yes, even knowing that doing so also elevates our chance of dying. Our ancestors - and not that long ago-lived with a significantly elevated chance of death from any number of diseases, some infectious and some not. They had babies in times where maternal mortality rates were appalling. I don’t desire a return to that time, and don’t expect that we will have to suffer that dramatic an increase in risk. But the reality is that COVID will be with us for some time, and we can’t go on like this indefinitely. We will have to accept some risk as the price of living in a dangerous world
At minimum, we will have to be permitted to go to parks and other open spaces. We will have to be permitted to see our loved ones - and, eventually, to hug them as well. Single people have to be allowed to date in person and find companionship, romantic or otherwise. Children have to be allowed to play with other children, and return to relatively normal schooling. These things don’t have to happen tomorrow (though I think the parks one should, if it hasn’t already). But they have to happen relatively soon. Maybe one month, maybe three, but not much more than that.
Longer term, at some point – vaccine or not-- there will have to be opportunities to hold larger gatherings, to eat at restaurants, to engage in cultural activities, and so on. I’d be willing to accept that these things might have to happen in modified form. But again, in the absence of any assurance that we will ever beat this disease, I don’t think “well, I guess we’ll just shut down sports, theatre, dining, etc” is a reasonable response. Maybe places will have stricter occupancy levels. Maybe 200 + person weddings are a thing of the past. Yet we need to return to some semblance of normality.
There are cultural differences in different parts of the USA, even between Maine and Mass. If you have been to both places and didn’t feel that, maybe you didn’t stay long enough to see it or maybe the things that stand out to me (which go well beyond how people drive) are not things that you notice. I am not alone in seeing these differences. I have been to many parts of the country and all have a different feel. Even two towns in the same state can have very different feels and cultures. Two towns from here is very, very old NE conservative. A town over is super liberal. Differences. I am not jingoistic about either one. I do know the name Maine people call Mass people and the name Mass people used to and maybe still call Mainers, though. lol I don’t use those words personally but they exist.
Can we please get back on topic?
Fauci plans to use the hearing to warn the American people of the dangers of opening too soon.
“The major message that I wish to convey to the Senate HLP committee tomorrow is the danger of trying to open the country prematurely,” he wrote. “If we skip over the checkpoints in the guidelines to ‘Open America Again,’ then we risk the danger of multiple outbreaks throughout the country. This will not only result in needless suffering and death, but would actually set us back on our quest to return to normal.”
'“We’re not reopening based on science,” said Dr. Thomas R. Frieden, a former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. “We’re reopening based on politics, ideology and public pressure. And I think it’s going to end badly.”
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Funny you should say that. On GMA this morning, Bob Iger and Lyn Manuel Veranda* announced Hamilton is coming to Disney Plus this summer. Dang it! Wasn’t planning on subscribing to yet another streaming service.
- I’m sure I butchered his name.