Texas has begun deploying health care swat teams to nursing homes, prisons, and meat packing plants. That seems like a sensible approach to prevent centers of contagion.
FWIW, these folks aren’t going to respond the way you want them to with any amount of shaming either. They’ll make jokes about it and have another drink. The only thing that will change their beliefs might be one of them actually getting it and having lifelong issues from it. If they get it and get over it they’ll be more certain of their views.
People know folks die from texting and driving, but a majority still admits to doing it. They assume they will be fine and only those other “bad” drivers will have a problem.
A common saying is, “You can’t fix stupid,” but TBH, that goes both ways. Everyone tends to say it about those who disagree with them.
An in-home dinner with 3 people who have otherwise been isolating is a far cry from a packed bar in Wisconsin. Trouble is, some people equate the two.
It’s not the single person going out - it’s the single person x thousands. Do you think you (the collective you) are the only one going out?
If people don’t like what I’m posting - there is this thing in preferences called Ignore. It’s very easy to use. I suggest people learn to use it.
I got a few texts from my daughter this morning. She’s been furloughed for 4 weeks now.
She got paid for her 4th week of unemployment but not for the first 3 or the extra $600. She can’t get the call or chat to go through and they estimate that it will take 42 day until they can answer her email questions.
As she said, what about people who don’t have an emergency fund?
FYI, the first week of unemployment is waived due to the CARES act so she should get paid for all 4 weeks.
I understand the severity of the health crisis. I question whether others understand the severity of the economic crisis.
Telling people they can put a poster on ignore suggests you aren’t interested in hearing people’s responses to your posts that might be different, or who might look at things in alternative ways.
It’s not that they don’t like what you are posting, some just have a different opinion.
That seems ok, no?
I think this is the crux of the misunderstanding and why people are talking past each other. You think that people who aren’t social distancing are being selfish. They believe that people who demand that they social distance are trying to impose your values and your thinking on them. You believe that your thinking is superior to their thinking. No one ever responds well to this type of criticism. They are never going to say “Gee you’re right, I’m stupid and selfish.” They are going to act to defend their thinking and actions. Everyone is trying to do what they believe is best - even the people who are going out to nightclubs. They believe that the risk from the virus is minimal and that the shut down orders are overreactions and are unnecessarily hurting the economy. You disagree with that. They are just starting with a different set of beliefs than you are.
If I put people on ignore I disagreed with I wouldn’t have many posts in the Cafe to read. This is where I read things from people I disagree with, maybe I’ll learn something or help someone see a different point of view, or at least know there are educated people with kids in or past college who have differing points of view.
I went to Target this morning to buy food for a food pantry drop off event, and even found a single bottle of hand sanitizer to add to the donation. One stockroom employee was walking the aisles without a mask, and one customer had his mask covering his mouth but not his nose. Other than that everyone was on good behavior. I saw someone leaving with a container of actual Clorox brand wipes, guess you had to be waiting at the door when they opened to get those. (I’ve still got the same 3 containers in my house I had in late February, don’t go through them all that fast.)
Anyone making sourdough bread? DS hasn’t bought a loaf of bread in years, he bakes his own, but yeast supplies are limited. He leads a pretty minimal lifestyle and wasn’t crazy about getting sourdough starter going because of the amount of discard involved and the shortage of flour, but is now thinking he’ll need to. It’s either that or pay for a loaf of bread in a plastic bag, so I guess he’ll get the starter going.
Lots of good stuff on this thread! http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/2181823-baking-bread-p1.html
Again, individual people that one may be ‘calling out’ in a specific situation are a much lower risk of even spreading the disease (never mind killing others) than the example of a drunk driver.
You can post all you want and I can respond all I want, as long as we both follow the terms of service, and yes, feel free to use ignore at will.
Exactly.
No, I’m starting with facts based on what public health officials are saying about the virus and what the consequences of people’s actions will be.
But…all public health officials are not in agreement as to the best course of action. Not those in the US, nor those worldwide.
We don’t yet know how things will turn out, but there are public health experts who think what Sweden is doing make sense. One reason is that some think that, although Sweden’s death rate per million is currently higher than the US’s, Sweden may not ultimately have the waves the US may have. And Sweden’s economy hasn’t suffered nearly as much as the US’s.
Personally, I don’t know enough to really weigh in on those discussions, but I recognize that all public health experts do not agree on how to handle this pandemic. It is gray, not black and white.
Please stop debating and arguing. It’s against the TOS and we don’t want this thread closed. Please.
The fact is…different folks have different points of view on this whole issue. Different state health departments different from one another on “the facts”. Some people have a lot of concerns about this virus and others don’t (I don’t care to debate the “why” of this).
Can we please move on from the bickering?
I was born in the early 60s in the age of vaccinations & conquering measles, polio, rubella, pertussis, etc.
I have trouble wrapping my head around what life must have been like before vaccinations when transmissible disease with potentially serious complications were endemic.
SARS-CoV-2 is a shock. I wonder what my grandparents would have thought.
Besides the 1918 Influenza, there must be a good documentary or two out there. Any recommendations?
I’m part of a Facebook group whose members generally support the stay-at-home orders that Gov. Evers (Wisconsin) put in place. Last night, a woman posted about the Tavern League, a Wisconsin-based and focused organization that told bars to “open immediately” after the Wisconsin Supreme Court issued its opinion late Wednesday afternoon. The woman has been involved in anti-drunk-driving initiatives since her son and his fiancee were killed in a collision a few years ago; the driver of the other vehicle was intoxicated. She is upset about the Tavern League’s actions regarding both the stay-at-home order and drunk driving. Yes, Wisconsin has big problems with drinking and with drinking and driving.
The public health authorities are making rules based only on slowing the spread of COVID 19. They aren’t factoring in anything else related to health.
- Pediatric vaccinations are down 70% Will we see a wave of measles, chicken pox etc. in the future. What are the consequences of that?
- Cancer diagnosis is down 50% It's not that cancer is down by 50%, but the diagnosis is down so people will discover they have cancer when it's in a later and less treatable stage.
- Calls to suicide hotlines are up. How to factor in despair from isolation and sudden economic ruin?
Is any public health authority doing any sort of calculation on lives saved versus lives lost? I’m not sure such a calculation can be done.
First of all, even if one hundred thousand people went out to (different) open spaces, stood well away from everyone else, and took off their masks, I’m not actually sure a single additional person would be infected. Really.
But even if they would, that’s not how we assess risk. Your drunk driver analogy is more akin to saying “Since the more people that drive, the greater the likelihood of accidents, including those caused by drunk drivers, no one should drive.”
The following things need to happen in order for you to infect someone:
-You need to be Corona positive. In areas with few cases, and especially among people not in particular risk groups (front-line workers, people in nursing homes), this is very unlikely.
-You need to be infectious. People are most infectious before and just after the onset of symptoms, and then start shedding progressively less virus. At some point, they are no longer infectious, even if they would likely still test positive for the virus.
-If you are infectious, the other person has to catch it from you. This does not always happen. I don’t know how likely transmission is in any given scenario, but it is very clear that there are ways of reducing the risk: prolonged contact is riskier than passing someone briefly, washing hands often helps, indoor is more dangerous than outdoors, if you don’t touch the person and maintain some distance, it at least reduces your risk.
-If both people are wearing a regular surgical masks properly, the risk of transmission is reduced by 95 %, according to available information.
Given the above, I maintain that it is possible to responsibly leave your home and maintain limited interaction with others during the pandemic. Yes, even if the absolute risk is very small, if enough people take that tiny risk, some number of people are likely to get infected. But banning or refraining from anything that incurs even slight risk is not reasonable, and not consistent with how society deals with any other risk.
And, of course, pretty much nobody “needs” to drive while drunk. It is possible to drink only in small amounts if you know you are going to have to drive, or to wait for a sufficient time after drinking to get in your car. You can call a cab, or have a friend pick you up. No one is saying either “don’t drink” or “don’t drive,” just “don’t do this uniquely dangerous combination of things together.”
People do need to earn a living, get an education, exercise, and experience love and companionship. This further strains the comparison.
I’m not saying that driving while drunk and going out during a pandemic are equivalent. Not at all. Just commenting about one (very powerful) organization’s actions regarding bars, drunk driving, the criminal justice system, and COVID-19.