‘For example, someone who values authority highly may be more likely to accept what medical experts say about COVID-19 than someone who does not value authority much.’
I think that people who are more accepting of science will be more likely to listen to what scientific and medical experts say regarding pandemic spread prevention, etc. I think people who reject what most scientists have found (global warming, the benefits of vaccines, etc) will be perhaps less likely to do so. I don’t think that people who listen to experts in virology, infectious disease = means they are people who necessarily value authority. Some in authority positions are not always recommending things in line with what infectious disease specialists are recommending and so valuing authority could lead to people being less likely to follow those guidelines to prevent spread.
You should also remember that it’s winter we’re talking about for HI - and were then too. We escape winter for a month or two (winter here usually means all of Feb and a week or two on either side of it if we can - 'tis the slow season for H - so he relocates his office somewhere south - still working, but from elsewhere).
Yes, we’re still planning to go south for the winter and HI still tops our destination list at the moment due to the fact that we love it there, haven’t been there in a few years, and they’ve handled the virus well to stay safe (up to this typing). We’re also considering Caribbean Islands. By this fall we should have more info regarding what happened over the summer to make plans. There’s no way we’re doing official planning now.
People here keep saying what you did over and over so I wonder if many people have all of us on ignore so are not reading us say that. We were always staying home in order to get the virus under control well enough so that we could handle any clusters of cases before they became outbreaks. Somehow that became we were only trying to flatten the curve, btdt and so now reopen when we haven’t done what was in the initial plan by getting enough rapid testing, contact tracing and quaantine set6 up.
Yes, your immediate prior post proves the point though - you’re describing how little you are spending how you’re not buying anything, etc. All the while, you’re planning big travel soon - big $$$, which you do not mention.
Is overall spending and travel down? Yes. But some people still will be spending and some will still travel, no matter how pointedly they omit those plans from their disclosure.
Those in a high-risk group who are dying to see a hairdresser might want to read this article about a barber that tested positive. Obviously we can’t say for sure where he got infected, but Occam’s Razor works for me…
I guess one has to define “soon.” To us, travel next Jan/Feb is not soon. It could be for others. We’d have just finished a trip last weekend to Germany/Poland and have taken another fancier trip in August for our Anniversary if not for Covid. Then there would be a bunch of smaller trips in between - all well before next winter.
By comparison this August’s trip will be to some body of water we can kayak on and set up our tent by. There’s a pretty good chance that will be our own campsite (on our property) by our creek if things go south with reopening. If things go well, then it could be a different campground somewhere in the nearby boonies - within a couple of hours of home. Before Covid we were plotting where we’d want to fly to and how long we wanted to stay.
Depends on your definition of “big $$$.” We fly using mileage, so no direct spending there. In the US we stay with friends. Overseas we stay in small local hotels, never chains, or airb&b. Yes, we eat out at least once a day, and spend money on museums, attractions, trains. Our last trip-- in November for 2 and 1/2 weeks in Italy – cost us under $800 because we traveled with another couple and split the accommodation costs.
our town’s seasonal beach badges went on sale today. Allegedly, they are capping the number they will sell, as well as the daily badges (which will have to be purchased online the night before). Should be interesting to see how this works. For the record, I did buy our season badges, but am mentally prepared for the possibility that there will be days when it is too crowded for me to feel comfortable there. Boardwalk businesses will be open for take away service, bathrooms will be open and masks will be required up on the boardwalk.
I’m a lifelong fan of the ocean pee myself, so…it will be business as usual for me in that regard (sandy, hot and crowded beach area bathrooms are not my thing). ?
If folks want to know, one of those smaller trips that was in our plans was to Tangier Island for FIL’s birthday in June. He’s 91 with heart issues. Prior to Covid we thought it would be a good reminisce trip he could still handle. The dude isn’t an invalid. He’s been out helping fix a seawall lately and still fishes/hunts by himself. But he’s also fully aware that he has significant heart issues almost passing away last summer. He has no desire to leave his riverside cottage - his second home he built back in the 60s or 70s. He built his first home too, but that was in the 80s.
So now the plan is for us to visit him for his birthday. That plan includes having bought everything including gas at least two weeks prior so we can isolate for that long, then driving straight from here to him without stopping - not even to pee - no gas will be needed. We can gas up on our return home.
More groceries will be bought as we won’t be eating out or getting take out, but that’s the only thing that will increase. Taking the ferry to Tangier, eating there, any souvenirs, extra gas, and anything else similar will not be spent and it would have been without Covid. It doesn’t matter if things open up. None of us have any desire to go, including him. He still likes his life and wants to keep it.
If my family is typical, it doesn’t look good for the economy. I have no idea if we’re typical or not TBH. Tangier might have plenty of people heading there to where it doesn’t matter a hoot if we stay home. (Ditto for other trips we’d have taken.)
I don’t think it is all about risk and if we can understand and just personal risk. I think it is about how much people read what people who are infectious disease specialists recommended should happen to prevent the virus from spreading widely here (we didn’t do those things), to know when it is safe to open to prevent having to close again and reclose over and over and over until the vaccine (we are skipping over those things in much of the country). I think there is also thinking about one’s own risk and about the risk to the nation and world as a whole in terms of both health and finances. I am not meaning this in an insulting way but it has felt to me that some think in terms of magical thinking that we could save the economy and sacrifice a ‘tiny percent’ of the population rather than seeing that even a tiny percent of some 328 million people is a huge number of people and their deaths will greatly impact the economy. We had a good chance to prevent widespread infections across the country and keep it localized at the start but didn’t do what was needed (get working test kits, have good testing and monitoring at all entry points and quarantine as needed, contact tracing and quarantine used quickly and effectively to slow and stop community spread. When people recommended those things others argued it would hurt the economy. those things done right and early would have saved the economy.
We had most of the country stay home to reset things so we could once again employ those things in order to save the economy and lives. Too many did not comply, spread was too wide when stay home started and not all understood a common message that we need to have the transmission rate below 1 and if not, that means the virus rate is increasing and will spread more and more. Opening up at such a time is asking for exponential growth and for having to again shut down over and over in the future instead of being able to limit the outbreak to regional areas.
I think that the disagreement comes from how much someone understands the above and more rather than some person ‘risk assessment’ for one’s own personal risk of getting the virus, because it isn’t about just one person.
I also think our country lacks a sense of looking out for fellow citizens to the level I saw when I was in other countries. That hurts us right now.
Raw life expectancy is not a healthcare outcome. It is influenced by many factors: obesity, exercise, diet, tobacco use, alcohol and drug abuse, motor vehicle accidents, suicide and homicide rates among others. It’s nonsensical to compare life expectancy, without adjusting for confounding variables, and attribute the differences to the quality of the healthcare systems.
Some rich countries have lower tobacco consumption. Australia, Canada, Denmark, Iceland, and New Zealand, all have lower tobacco consumption than the US. The UK has almost the same tobacco use as the US. For tobacco use, you need to look at current and historical usage. Someone who smoked everyday from 15-45 and then quit would have done permanent damage to their lungs. Many rich countries have lower alcohol consumption than the US including Canada, Iceland, the Netherlands, Norway, and Sweden.
And ALL these countries have healthier people !! Woo-hoo. Way to go America. We spend the most on healthcare, but remain fatter, dumber, drunker, die quicker and now lead in COVID! This is American exceptionalism, right? We defy every norm
Sure, but getting back to this thread: obesity IS a co-morbidity for COVID. It appears (surprisingly) that smoking may not be. Dunno about alcohol consumption, as opposed to wipes.
I look at it differently. I am surprised that so many Americans complied and are complying with SIP orders. Ditto mask wearing. Ditto hand-washing & hand-sanitizing. Ditto social distancing. Even done imperfectly or inconsistently. it was a big ask of a very large diverse independent-minded citizenship, and most of the country fell in line in a very short period of time.
I mean look at what did NOT happen. There could have been NYC-NJ levels of infection and death and hospital strain in nearly every big city in every state. That did not come to pass.
Again, it’s not been perfect or smooth or ideal. It’s been bumpy and messy and frustrating — and will likely continue to be that way.
It’s a win that there have not been riots with neighborhoods looted and set ablaze. Fingers crossed we do not get there. Personally, we feel like we live a little too close to the tinder box.
