‘Dozens of members of reopened German church infected after services’
“After Germany reopened places of worship this month, congregants of an Evangelical Baptist church in Frankfurt gathered in prayer on May 10. Less than two weeks — or one incubation period — later, more than 40 members of the church are now infected with the coronavirus, the German press agency DPA reported.
The deputy chairman of the local congregation, Wladimir Pritzkau, told DPA that six people are currently hospitalized, though the city’s health department told Reuters that only one person had been admitted. The church is now holding services exclusively online.“
We know that social distancing alone does not do the trick. In the Washington choir superspreading event, the singers were social distancing but many got infected and two died. In the German church event that @emilybee cites, the congregation was social distancing.
I haven’t seen a clamor to open churches with masks and social distancing. The publicity I’ve seen is people asking for churches to be open as normal, with no masks and no social distancing. Did I miss this? I feel like there’s a divide between churches that are saying, “Our congregants are older and at higher risk, better not take chances here, let’s go online,” and churches that say, “God is stronger than a virus, full speed ahead!” with nobody in between.
ETA: Church services with no masks are dangerous events. We know of many, many superspreading events at church services.
That suggests that social distancing recommendations or requirements need to consider the risk level of the situation. An indoor environment where people are stationary for long periods of time and therefore exposed to the same people for long periods of time (e.g. choir singers and audience, many religious services, eating in indoor restaurants, and college classes in indoor classrooms) may need greater distancing and lower density than an outdoor situation where everyone is moving around and has no more than a transient exposure to any other person (e.g. walking at a park or beach).
Didn’t someone mention a church with a large building that allowed only a small number of household groups in for each in-person service, with each household group having to sit together in a designated place far (much further than six feet) from any other household group?
Another possible mitigation that some religious groups can do for services is have them outside.
Of course, colleges are trying to figure the same type of issues with classes.
There might be indoor spaces that, because of the ventilation, can’t be safe. If an infected person can fill the entire space with viruses, then no social distancing will work.
We don’t know how well masks work with potential superspreaders. That’s one of the many pieces of information we’ll learn in the coming months. It would be great if masks substantially reduced a superspreading event.
Some churches are opening with masks and social distancing - family groups sitting with each other in little clusters, a soloist instead of a choir. If it’s not Christmas or Easter there is often plenty of room to spread out.
And I don’t know what @ucbalumnus is reading, but I do see guidance for indoor vs. outdoor distancing. I see very few masks outdoor here in the burbs, my city kid sees them (and wears them) on crowded sidewalks. Restaurants are more restricted in indoor seating than outdoor.
There are people who will hide in their homes until it’s over, and people who will sneak out and ignore warnings even in high risk areas. You know, Diversity.
The murder rate in St. Louis is at or ahead of last year, someone is getting out.
We treat life style induced illnesses like lung cancer, obesity, and drug addiction, to the tune of billions of dollars a year. I think we can spare a few dollars for COVID-19 treatment for those who either had to work or took a chance.
Kid in Kentucky said the restaurant she works at is open now, with restrictions.
She reports high demand for patio seating & less demand for inside.
She said she was surprised by how many “old” people were out dining, but she is 22 and everyone is “old” to her. O.o
She said carry out was as busy as ever. Three people manning the phones.
This restaurant has been allowing employees to order $30 worth of food, 2x a week, to help offset the loss of income. Unsure how long that will be offered.
In my area masks are required inside public buildings (stores, etc) and not required outside. The guidelines suggest that people like bike riders bring a mask along, in case they find themselves in a situation where they’d need one. That’s what I do.
A Worcester MA pastor that violated state orders in April, was fined week after week, then met with Gov Baker to plead his case. By mid-May, he made adjustments to include masks and social distancing. Gov Baker lifted the ban on worship services May 18, with strict guidelines.
The Massachusetts church guidelines place a lot of importance on surfaces, and on preventing people from touching contaminated surfaces or being able to clean hands afterwards.
But as far as we know, the problem with churches is singing and loud responses, not touching contaminated surfaces. Maybe masking is enough to protect people who sing. We don’t know.
In 1905 SCOTUS ruled that mandatory vaccinations could usurp private liberty as long as the policy “was reasonable.” So, yes, religious services can be closed, if reasonable. The question then becomes how is it reasonable for restaurants/retail stores or other places of gathering to open with proper SD but not reasonable for places of worship to open with proper SD?
There was a recent federal ruling allowing in-person church services in KY, although I think with recommended social distancing.
I’m personally surprised there hasn’t been a run on HEPA air filters from businesses and offices wanting to reopen. If I was a church, restaurant, or office manager I’d want to install a bunch of HEPA filters. Only downside being they’re big, loud, and have power cords snaking around.