Coronavirus May 2020 - Observations, information, discussion

It’s fair game to want your country to be better, do better. This pandemic points out lots of issues with our country. It’s worthwhile calling them out for what they are, IMO. Despite what some may think, it doesn’t make one “unpatriotic” or whatever garbage one hears when pointing out flaws in our country, poor leadership, etc.

" I would teach patriotism in the schools, and teach it this way: I would throw out the old maxim, ‘My country, right or wrong,’ etc., and instead I would say, ‘My country when she is right.’ Because patriotism is supporting your country all the time, but your government only when it deserves it." - Mark Twain

I’m pretty sure everyone here gets that yet daily we all witness people who absolutely do have the luxury of staying home and ordering online or doing without not making tiny sacrifices or altering their lifestyles for the greater good because they can’t bear a small inconvenience or they lack the concept of delayed gratification or they are frankly selfish.

Not sure whether masks make less of a difference than staying 6 feet away from someone. They might make more of a difference.

I’ve posted before that I love watching the UCSF School of Medicine’s Grand Rounds. I feel like I’m eavesdropping on a bunch of doctors talking shop. One frequent contributor is George Rutherford, an epidemiologist. The moderator asked Dr. Rutherford whether he’d choose social distancing or universal masking as a public health measure, if he had to choose only one. He picked masking.

(at about 20 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ny4NivhjHAQ

@katliamom, not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. We may both think the national policy of Sweden is ill advised, but I promise their leaders are not ignorant, nor do the difficult ethical, moral and economic issues posed lend itself to charges of ignorance by either side

They could do everything online, but seems to me your employees just refuse to, because they don’t trust anything.

81% of people in the US own a smart phone and 75% own a computer/laptop and 50% own tablets.

“The vast majority of Americans – 96% – now own a cellphone of some kind. The share of Americans that own smartphones is now 81%, up from just 35% in Pew Research Center’s first survey of smartphone ownership conducted in 2011. Along with mobile phones, Americans own a range of other information devices. Nearly three-quarters of U.S. adults now own desktop or laptop computers, while roughly half now own tablet computers and roughly half own e-reader devices.”

https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/

Where have I even used the word ignorant? Don’t put words in my mouth, and please don’t drag in Sweden because I have not opined on it one way or another.

I’d definitely want to walk a mile in the shoes of one of coralbrook’s employees before I made confident statements about their life. I don’t feel like I have a good grasp of what the life of a construction worker is like. I’m sure it’s very, very different than my life.

She said they dont “trust” anything. Those are her words, not mine. I assume she knows her employees pretty well.

^^^ and those statistics leave LOTS of people unable to do thing online. My co-workers parents don’t have a computer, cell phone, etc. They have never had a credit card nor a debit card. They are in their 80s. No way could they figure things out now. And they are hardly alone in this area. I know lots of people still don’t have bank accounts. The money order line is always long in our Walmart.

Pre-dementia, my in-laws used to own a computer, but they couldn’t figure anything out. We were constantly over there trying to help them before they gave up. My MIL tried an iPhone twice and got scared of it and gave them to my kids.

A local popular doctor’s office went to using iPads for patients to check in and fill out paperwork. It was a disaster. My co-worker’s D worked in the billing office and she said she’d have to sit in the waiting room all day and fill everything out for everyone. They just couldn’t do it themselves.

Edit to say that I know a whole lot more people personally who don’t have computers, cell phones or bank accounts than have had coronavirus, let alone die from it

geeesh I am gone all day off my computer and with almost 150 replies, very few very informative, and many are just going back and forth. The one thing that I read here is that Doctors know more now than they did in March. I was having this discussion with a friend. As time as has gone on, whether right or wrong, I have become less afraid of dying from this Virus. What still befuddles me though is that there is still such a high rate of death here in the US, but I need to figure out from the numbers how many are folks under 80 as time goes on. It seems that in many locations the deaths are still attributed to nursing homes.
Many people i know did the SIP starting in middle March. Only went out for those so called essentials. Did not spend time with anyone but who was living in the house. 2 months later, and of course the weather is better in most places. This does allow for outdoor socialization and distancing, and more outdoor activities . I think this is part of the mobility we are seeing. But in my “open” state , I am seeing more and more people in stores. The funny thing is in all those “nonessential” retail locations, i see much more mask wearing and Social distancing than I do in the supermarket. In my Kroger this morning maybe 50% wearing masks. It was also not easy to stay 6Ft apart. Walk into a Kohls or Macys, it pretty easy.

AS far as restaurants go, those that have outdoor seating have been doing much better than those with indoor only.

What really has changed, with people I know , is that in the last few weeks they have increased their “circle”. They are now socializing with a few friends. Sometimes just outdoors, but not all the time. I see parents doing playdates with one or two families. Will this increase cases, hopefully not, as I like to think that these would make contact tracing a bit easier if you know that you have been around X small amount of people.

Where I think we will start to see the numbers go back up, is large gatherings. Not the churches that have a fraction of the people there, masks, and Social distancing, but those that are fully opening. Family reunions,. Grad and Birthday parties. I was driving in a neighborhood today to finally pick up my Girl scout cookies from someones mailbox and Saw a bouncie house and plenty of cars. Not sure how we stop the train now. Even in the states where the Governors are keeping things shut as far as retail , gyms, restaurants, how do you stop every get togethers ? you cant.

So yes we will have waves. Hopefully each time, we will get better at treating this , until the death rates plunge. How are some Countries keeping the death rate down, such as Singapore, even as more cases pop up.? For those that can, and feel the risk is too great, you can continue to SIP. I have a friend that before all this rarely left her house, as she was a homebody. She worked from home, and just went to the store or a restaurant occasionally. Lives in a ruralish area. Her life has not changed much.

Your coworker could order anything her parents wanted online for them. My 90 year old neighbor’s daughter who lives in Kentucky has been doing it for her mother since PAUSE started.

In New Zealand people could go to the grocery store. Ditto Italy. Also pharmacies.

We could have done what they did. But we didn’t because excuses.

Yes, the poor, the elderly and people who live in remote areas are often left out technologically. Millions of Americans live without decent internet service. Efforts to make it a utility have been shot down in Congress.

I have heard this explained on a podcast as a “severity bias”. The vast majority of people being tested were the most seriously ill and usually presenting at the hospital.

A very large amount of sick people were told to recover at home and were never officially tested.

Seems like we will get a more accurate picture as testing expands to the wider population.

I have also heard (podcast) estimates that the “true” hospitalization rate is about 5%.

My 78yo mother owns a smartphone and a computer, but is very, very reluctant to order anything online. After all, she’d have to enter her credit card number. Her printer quit working recently. I tried to help her, long distance. She had to take a Xanax beforehand, it stressed her out so much. Still couldn’t get it working. I’m sorry, but she’s not ordering her groceries online. And it’s not because she doesn’t care about her family.

I don’t see us as a ‘stupid and selfish nation’. I see us as a large - geographically, population wise and lifestyle wise diverse- nation.

What is ‘essential’ in those, oft considered, podunk flyover states might not be essential in NYC or SF. It’s hard for me to imagine SF or NYC considers a large animal veterinarian that travels to your place of residence as essential. It’s hard for me to imagine those in dairy country consider a local micro-brewery more essential than the canvas and tractor repair shop. When things open I can see my county neighbors rushing to a carwash to get the Tesla back into appropriate shape. While I can easily imagine the great big central flyovers are not in the least concerned with the dust level of their vehicles.

What screams at me from these pages is a true divide between the "I’m intellectual and understand the world’ vs ‘I’m digging in the dirt, bringing your groceries and live with 6 people in a 2br apartment’ classes.

I’ve gone thru numerous SF Bay Area counties. The closer one gets to the Sierra foothills, the more one sees lax compliance with masks and distancing. In their defense, these counties haven’t seen many cases and in most instances zero deaths. The local lake is shut down. As are all the campgrounds and services surrounding it. But, another 20 miles up the highway there is a private enterprise running on federal land. It’s one of the last pack stations (think - hire horse and guide and trek 3 days into the wilderness to camp). LOTS of people hanging out. A line of pickup trucks that would make an ivory tower intellectual cringe and reach for some artisanal cheese and a $200 bottle of wine. H and I decided that was not our idea of safe - so we left. Are these folks wrong? Time will tell.

But my chances of finding a chest freezer at the Lowe’s or HD in the foothills is MUCH larger than in any direct San Francisco adjacent county. Why? Because folks that live the mountain, country - or as some would say ‘hick’ lifestyle - already have most of what they need to survive. And, if as one poster predicts, we are in for a massive second wave and a much harsher shutdown/lockdown/SIP/stay home order - I’d rather be among those who know how to take care of themselves and their neighbors when it comes to the basics of life than I would be around those lamenting a 5 day Instacart wait time.

Oh…and…BTW…getting serviceable internet in these mountain communities is by no means a given. Usually, the only available option is a satellite based service. And, it can mean removing a number of large trees - or putting in a tower. Guess what’s happening with those ‘shelter at home, study on the internet’ kids. I’m going to venture that guess - they will be further behind than tiger mom’s kids in San Jose.

You answered a question I didn’t ask.

You could order for her and pay for it. She could send you a check for the amount.

Always the same excuse. Every other country in the world can do it, but we can’t because we are so diverse. Horsepucky.

Observation: 30 years married this summer. Been spending so much time together over past few months. Realize I’m more in love with my wife now then ever before.

My guys do have cell phones but only one has a data package. He only uses it for What’s App and watch You Tube videos. They do not have credit cards to buy anything online. The one with data package is hopeless with the Internet. I do a lot of stuff for him on the Internet and it always requires an email address. I keep creating an email address and hand him a piece of paper with email address and password.

He then calls every day asking what his password is. He has no idea. I gave up and started keeping all his User IDs and passwords in my desk. It is not an ideal situation.

I only bring this up as an example of a sub section of the population that cannot really survive in an Internet only world. I’m guessing there are lots of school kids in the same situation