@Mwfan1921 Check this study from 2009.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/
I have found others that to me showed masks are helpful, even if not perfect fits or n95s. I will see if I can find them but I read them a long time ago.
This study did not evaluate non-medical cloth masks, they looked at N95 masks, P2 non-fitted masks, and no mask. I don’t dispute that medical masks, especially fitted ones, confer substantial protection.
In addition, masks will stop you from touching your mouth and nose with a hand that touched an virus infected surface.
JMO, I think people are in denial.
The virus hasn’t gone away and it’s just going to spread more with the opening of many states.
We’ve gone from 58K deaths (# lost in Vietnam War) just last week up to 66K (iirc) yesterday.
The official projection issued last week was 75k by mid August. We are going to blow by that this month.
However, actual COVID-19 deaths may be higher than known COVID-19 deaths, since untested deaths (particularly outside of hospitals) may go unrecorded as COVID-19 even if they were actually (or probably) due to COVID-19.
However, if the vitamin D hypothesis* is true, then there could be an effect even when people are indoors. Also, nicer weather outside may reduce the amount of time people spend indoors.
*That people in sunnier areas who go outside not completely covered-up have better vitamin D levels which help their immune systems fight off SARS-CoV-2, whether the exposure occurs indoors or outside.
We know there is asymptomatic spread and that this seems to be happening via people breathing and talking near others. Masks block at least some particles. I think it seems pretty straightforward that masks will help slow and stop the spread. I can understand that might not always be true if virus gets into a mask and hangs out wet on the interior and a person’s face is up against this wet interior, and that Covid 19 is very small and can pass through masks that are not good at filtering, but I think that even the worst they are stopping some particles from becoming those ‘turbulent clouds’ that the MIT researcher found could travel those super long distances and stay in the air for hours. The video of the tissue capturing the sneeze is pretty compelling. Yes, I’m sure that some particles escaped, but a lot did not. If we can see the snot (sorry to be gross) leaving a person’s nose and mouth from a sneeze or cough on slowed down video, that’s a lot of virus that is potentially hanging in the air. If much of it ends up in a tissue (remember, a person’s hand is holding the tissue in front of their mouth and that hand is also blocking things that might get through the tissue), that will keep fewer things from floating in the air. I think many masks will be as effective at this at the least.
I also read data about mask use in Asia and how it has been effective. I can’t find it now. I admit that I had already held the belief that masks work and help before this pandemic but I did read about it since and felt very convinced by research from years past that show masks, even non-medical ones, will help slow and prevent transmission of things like flu and other viruses.
The first thing many countries around China did when this new virus came to be known was to up their usage of masks and I think that helped greatly in slowing the spread. Of course in some of those places they had more medical-grade masks, but not all.
@emilybee I think it is denial, too, but I can understand getting lulled into it. It is a gorgeous day here. I feel a bit stir crazy. I would love to drive somewhere and be in public around other people and eat in a restaurant or go to the beach or see friends or etc. It feels OK. We don’t have that many official cases around here. But logic kicks in and I know there are actually a good number of cases around here, there are people who have died, a good number in the hospital, and our state is in stay home for the next at least 3 weeks so I should not do those things. But I can understand the feelings of those who want to do them because I want to, too.
I have wondered about things like nutrition. Why are the German death numbers so low? Is it something they eat? Is it that they treated people with some special technique that prevented deaths in hospitals? And honestly, I’m not certain my idea of Germany’s situation is still accurate. Oh, maybe it is just that they are testing so much more. That would do it. If they test tons of people, they will get all those who are asymptomatic and those who have more minor symptoms and moderate symptoms along with those in the hospital. If we test less, then the death rate goes up for those diagnosed. Or am I still thinking wrong and the low German death rate was for their population, not for those diagnosed? If so, I do wonder what they were doing differently than other places.
More people have lost their lives to many things in any given year and the year before and year’s to come in relationship to the Vietnam War.
And the Vietnam War may have claimed up to 2-3mm lives in reality.
Our soldiers were not the only people dying.
I am not sure why this has become the comparison of choice (not just here but more broadly in general) and it’s mixing issues that don’t need mixing. It’s bad on it own and people know it.
OK, what I’m going to do today–get off this computer! Go outside and enjoy a beautiful day! We have a cherry tree that is gorgeous right outside! I’m going to go look at it and take a walk and read the two different books i"m in the middle of reading, cook good food, and do paperwork (bleh!) I’m going to get mid-quarter progress reports done. I am hopefully going to clean something in the house. We will see on that.
Have a nice day everyone!! 
Thats been my (unscientific) hypothesis.
And even when indoors (at home at least), one opens the windows to let the fresh air in, so even if a family member is asymptomatic, whatever they exhale gets immediately diluted.
Of course, warmer weather cities also have relatively poor use of mass transit.
I think there is much denial and much magical thinking but that this applies to almost everyone, not just the people who think it’s now safe to mingle.
It’s magical thinking to believe that a lot of people will make their decisions about reentering society based on science.
It’s magical thinking to believe that other factors (mental and emotional health, financial status) are less significant than scientific factors in the decision-making process.
It’s magical thinking to believe that the need to earn money (i.e., to reopen parts of the economy) means that a lot of people won’t get sick when that happens.
How many of those things killed people because they were contagious and which no one had immunity to?
Cancer kills a lot of people; heart disease kills a lot of people; car accidents kill a lot of people but none of those things are contagious.
The way to make a less porous but more effective filter easier to breathe through is to increase the surface area of the filter. If you have a look at gas respirators, e.g. the type painters wear, you see two large “external” style filters on either side of the face. They’re designed with large filters to improve overall airflow. I’ve never tried one, but maybe somebody here has and can comment on how difficult they are to breathe through. These capture aerosols which particulate masks don’t (i.e. N95) so would give a higher degree of safety against aerosolized coronavirus.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Medium-House-Hold-Multi-Purpose-Respirator-65021HA1-C/202080143
Another way is an externally-powered fan which pushes air through the filter for the user. You see these types of filters in hazmat suits. If you’re really, really serious you could get a fully enclosed mask (covers your entire face including eyes) with an external air supply like that.
https://www.amazon.com/slp/papr-respirator-system/up27h8qy256v8qs
The other option that’s more effective than N955 is N99 which filters to 2.5 microns (they use a PM2.5 filter). But those are even more difficult to breathe through - I’ve read they take 50% more effort. I have one and I can see it being tough for anyone with less than perfect lung capacity.
https://www.amazon.com/n99-mask/s?k=n99+mask
Per statistita.com
In order globally. These communicable diseases are multiples of the figures discussed here. And they occur to every year.
Tuberculosis
HIV/AIDS
Malaria
Hepatitis C*
Cholera*
Also Flu
As a point of reference. Malaria kills approx 1mm people per year mostly children under 5.
Influenza kills over 650,000 people each year.
It’s not about what’s worse. It’s a terrible virus. Very scary. It wasn’t the point.
I am in no way downplaying the severity.
We closed down the country. I think it’s being taken seriously. Perhaps more seriously than anything in history.
Why do we need more hyperbole and scare tactics?
Lives have been lost, families ruined financially forever, and our national debt has exploded 6-8 trillion dollars.
It’s quite a bill we’ve left the kids in just two months. And it was 100 percent necessary.
To me, the Vietnam reference has started to pop up in the media for reasons unrelated to the medical crisis and diminishes important dialogue we can all have together. It’s sole purpose is to influence or scare low information citizenry. Imho.
Agreed. Our children will pay financially for this virus for the rest of their lives. Worse schooling, roads, public services-all destined to be cut, and standards of living are not going to recover for many decades. Our health insurance company informed us our premiums will rise a minimum of 40%, so since we self-employ (my dh), that is $36k premium for 2 adults, 2 kids, with no conditions.
Jeez. We are waiting to hear news that I fear will be similar, we are already at $27K per year premium for 4 healthy people, and that’s with a high deductible plan.
The American people could look at this is a time to change the US forever. I don’t see that yet, I am not sure why.
Not to me they aren’t and they never will be. All might be unfortunate, but all are definitely not innocent when some know they shouldn’t have been doing what they were doing.
Plenty up to this point were innocent as humanity didn’t know much about this virus. Roughly a month or six weeks ago we had a pretty good understanding.
Choices we make have consequences. Choices others make can have consequences on us even if “we” were doing everything right. (Someone proceeding through a green light vs drunk or texting driver running a light)
The phrase, innocent bystander, was coined for a reason. While both deaths can be unfortunate, the one making the bad choice knowing the higher risk was out there was hardly innocent.
YMMV if you think everyone gets a free pass regardless of their choices in life.