Respectuflly, I am a skier and once worked at a ski resort. I clearly said in my post that my assumption is that spreading occurred in hotels/restaurants/stores.
I think a big issue with beaches, parks etc is that the number of visitors is exploding. Under normal circumstances, these places would be great places to be during this pandemic. Unfortunately, they are now overcrowded. I saw an interview with a park ranger who said normally he could interact with a handful of folks during his shift at a national park - on a nice day right before the park was closed he interacted with 600!
NJ is opening the state parks this weekend. People are being advised to not even get out of their cars if their destination is too crowded - I don’t see this happening.
This is how I feel too. “Cavalier” is exactly the word I used in a post a couple of days ago. And I’ve been criticized for it. I’ve been told that we can’t take life over the economy because most of the people who are dying would be soon dead anyway. We’re the richest nation on earth. We could afford to give everyone a salary while we stay home. The way most other developed nations are doing. But we don’t and won’t. Shrug. Values. We’re seeing them play out here. I’m personally appalled, and, frankly, ashamed of America right now…
@emilybee – Again, not trying to be argumentative. But again, I don’t understand why people aren’t going to gas stations and grocery stores anyway. The beach isn’t the problem. People eat regardless. It’s not being selfish to point that out.
People have to have places to go outside. I live in an urban area. We need places to be out. If you want to talk about prejudices and haves and have-nots, I think a lot of the stay in your lane people are the haves who have room to move.
Spikes in cases are also due to the timing of reporting. You are assuming that new cases represent the data from the previous day. The sheer volume of test results coming in does not always allow them to be entered right away. Just take a look at the WA DOH data. DOH acknowledges that numbers reported in the prior days will likely change due to refining. That’s why you need to look at moving averages, not any single day data.
Personally, I’m very grateful to frontline essential workers and to everyone, no matter their employment status, who has been taking measures to protect their own health and the health of frontline essential workers, by, for example, staying home as much as possible, going less often to group settings, and volunteering time or money to organizations helping essential and nonessential workers cope.
We are learning as we go, and some recommendations will change based on what we learn. What won’t change is that many Americans have proved themselves heroes. These include health-care workers, public transit and other mass transportation workers, funeral home owners and employees, long-term care facility workers, grocery store workers, restaurant owners and employees, food-processing plant employees, farmers, and truckers. They have saved lives, and some of them have lost their own lives.
They aren’t going to gas stations because most aren’t driving anywhere.
I’m still at half a tank and my last fill up was on March 8 when we were in CT and had to drive 150 miles to get home.
Leave home and go to the market. One vector. Go to beach, stop at market, stop at gas station - while we are out, maybe go to the garden store while we are at it. 4 or more vectors.
All who are clamoring for things to open - do not be surprised when your states have to close down again in 4 weeks because infection rates and death have skyrocketed.
It is what happened already in places that opened up.
We are not immune or special.
It will happen here.,
There have been reports of grocery store workers testing positive. But there hasn’t been the corollary that shoppers at those stores have become a COVID cluster. The clusters seem to be cases in which people have been in close confines indoors for extended periods of time.
Of the 18 deaths in Ventura County, all had ‘chronic health issues’, according to the Ventura County Star.
As we are learning more about this disease, the data should modify restrictions and behaviors. Obviously those who have chronic health issues need protection. Those who live with people or work with people with chronic health issues (the definition needs to be refined) need to take extreme precautions.
For sure, we feel less afraid of the virus since getting infected & sick ourselves (& recovering).
I posted before that we (H & I) counted at least 15 people in the transmission chain. There may be more, of course.
Out of all those people, only one person was tested, and tested positive.
There is no doubt I am significantly less anxious when I have to go to the grocery store now.
I also believe we’d be pulled in the other direction if someone in our close circle got infected & died.
Sorry- not sure how that happened. Around 20 positive cases out of 30,000 customer facing employees.
Why would you expect it to be any different if the opening we’re in January, @emilybee? A serious question. No doctor I have asked thinks we will make substantial progress for a long time, so choose when to open-June, January 2021, August 2021. There will be cases around, it will spread whenever reopening occurs. There is no herd immunity developing while we hide at home, just postponing the inevitable.
I wish there was a little more structure around opening public areas like parks or the beaches. I wish they could say that we can all go to our local parks-but you should be prepared to show ID to prove that you are local within a xyz miles of that park. We have some beautiful parks where I live in NJ and before they were closed the parking lots had plenty of NY plates, which is not the norm at all. I don’t blame people for wanting to get out, and I know it’s not enforceable, but I just don’t see how things will be any better now-that the weather is getting better and we are coming up on the public school year ending next month. I guess I am a poster child for the Have/Have Not’s issue-but I just wish everyone would stay local. (And I wish everyone had nice parks like I do, and I know that’s not the case everywhere…)
I think it’s selfish to mandate that people can’t go to jobs, perform services and feed their families because if everyone is prohibited from doing that, YOU might be just a teeny tiny bit safer.
It would likely be better to open during summer. It’s not flu season. We don’t want the inevitable second surge to come on top of cases of the flu.
I am at low risk and almost certainly would be even if I resumed my regular activities. I’m not concerned about my own safety. And yet I stay at home and try to support the economy other than by going repeatedly to places where many people gather. Please don’t assume that everyone who supports some stay-at-home measures does so because they’re selfish.
Our doofus governor is reopening, ,adn there were 1,000 new cases in 24 hours. Sure, its likely due in part to increased testing, but still. The numbers are NOT going down. We do not need a surge. Stay home.
The Peachtree Roadrace, usually run July 4, has been reschdeuled to Thanksgiving. At least someone has a brain.
Every year, reliably, more than 30,000 people are killed in car accidents in the United States. I have seen statistics that - almost unbelievably - more than 3 million are injured, many seriously and with permanent consequences.
We could cut these numbers by more than 90% by prohibiting the manufacture of motor vehicles that can travel at speeds greater than, say 25 mph. Yet we do not.
How can we as a society be so “cavalier” as to allow these deaths and injuries? How do we live with ourselves?
Interesting, thanks. So much depends on where and how you work…
THIS! Thanks rosered55.
On top of that, a spike in January may coincide with the flu season, and that’s where the real chaos in hospitals begins. Unless there’s an effective widely available vaccine, a January reopening seems quite dangerous to me.
Sorry, crossposted with Tatin.