Could you cover $400 for an emergency expense?

I’m not dstark, but I do feel some sympathy for the author.

Sure he screwed up and made some bad financial choices. But I find his story interesting precisely because he isn’t your “typical middle class person.” I’ve hear a lot of awfully sad stories over the past five years about your typical squeezed middle class person, so it was interesting (to me) to read about someone who, on the outside, appeared to be doing fine, financially.

And I thought that was one of the major points of the article - that much of this “financial impotence” is silent (until, of course, you write an article about it!) It’s not just blue collar workers and displaced mid-level professionals.

I can feel sympathy for multiple types of people (maybe not for Charles Manson, but he didn’t write the article.) If that makes me soft-hearted or misguided or squishy, so be it.

@mom2and,I get why I think the way I do.

I worked on a trading floor. I saw a lot of people make a lot of money. I saw a lot of people lose a lot of money. I saw people spend too much money. I saw people save and invest wisely. I saw a lot of people make good decisions. I saw a lot of people make poor decisions. Sometimes the same people made good and bad decisions. I made good and bad decisions.

I saw and dealt with the psychology of money. That was part of my job.

I see Gabler in many other people. What he did is not unique. He is not a surprise.

You can be upper middle class and end up with similar problems as the middle class.

The world isn’t so binary. You make good decisions you do well. You make bad decisions you do bad. Not always.

Gabler made some decisions I wouldn’t have made. But… I understand why he made those decisions. His plight is not solely caused by his actions. The economic world is changing. When I left the trading floor, there were over 400 people making a living. Now there are maybe 15 people? People make decisions based on their present and future expectations and sometimes they are wrong and they get in trouble.

Gabler says he can understand what the middle class is going through. I am sure he can.

He is just like my friends. When the H lost his job and their income dropped did they retrench - no - they took $400k from their equity and continued to live like nothing had changed. If they had any savings to begin with that is gone too. Fast forward 5 years and they are dead broke. Still in their big house with big mortgage, driving luxury leased cars, going out to dinner and movies, shopping at Whole Foods and borrowing from relative to stay afloat for a few more months. Can’t even afford $500 a month to pay back relative. They are our friends but I do not feel sorry for them. They had a lot of options in the beginning to reduce their spending but chose not to. Now they don’t have a pot to piss in but the big deal is going to come in any day now so they’re still living way above their means because, IMO, they believed they deserve to live this way. God forbid she has to do her own nails.

It seemed to me for most of my lifetime it was possible to plan for predictable economic outcomes. I don’t believe that to be the case any more. For a while in 2008 and 2009, I wondered what was going to happen to all the really good savers if the banks collapsed. Would their money actually be insured? With what? I started thinking about folks I know with confederate $$ stuck in a desk drawer. And my grandmother who kept real silver $$ in the freezer.

My grandparents and parents could plan on increasing economic opportunity. I don’t see how our kids can. Salaries, job stability, house prices: who can predict what will happen the next decade? When risk averse savers lose money due to low interest rates, I feel it’s impossible to really be safe with regard to money.

I agree that he can understand. What I object to is his position that his problems are the same as those of the middle class and have the same cause and the same lack of options to fix.

Even those with a good income feel vulnerable these days when dependent on a salary. Whether on Wall St. or Main St., nobody wants to have to spend their life savings to survive a layoff or change their lifestyle. But the person with the Wall St. salary usually has many more options than a true middle class worker.

Isn’t there a difference between “putting him down” and calling him out (Posts #259 and #312)? I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt but he sounded so disingenuous on “On Point” yesterday. He is cagey about his finances. He was indignant yesterday that people would criticize him for paying for his daughter’s wedding. He says it was “only four figures.” Well, is that $1,000 or $9,999? In either event it was money he shouldn’t have spent, when she could have had a lovely backyard Hamptons wedding with a small group of family and friends for a modest sum.

He hasn’t been specific about the movie rights to the Winchell book. Filmmaker magazine indicates that a typical amount paid for an option that is exercised is 2.5% of the film’s budget. Assuming that a small film on Walter Winchell in the 1990s might have a budget of $10,000,000 that would be $250,000. 10% goes to your agent and, say, 40% to state and local taxes, leaving $125,000. That’s nearly enough for a 20% downpayment on a $700,000 house. A 30-year fixed rate mortgage in December 1994 was 9.2%. Do you spend the whole thing on a down payment knowing that you have no cushion and a high monthly mortgage payment?

Gabler does a disservice to two different groups of people IMO. He does a disservice to the millions of self-employed people, with erratic incomes, who plan responsibly for the lean times. I have a relative who is also a professional writer and a year younger than Gabler, and has probably made roughly as much money in his career. They live in a nice suburban house that they paid $240k for in the 1990s, a third the cost of NG’s. They put their son through the first three years of Purdue. When my relative lost a major writing gig during his son’s junior year, the son took out loans to finish senior year. The son is now a successful, well-paid engineer in NYC. I’m sorry, but I have zero sympathy for a person like NG who time after time had a lot of breaks, and made choices that consistently undermined the financial stability of his family. And he is now bringing out a book on Barbra Streisand, as if the world needs one more book on her? How many years did he spend on that???

The other group he does a disservice to are those, like @kkmama who hold down two jobs, make the best decisions given their day to day circumstances, and who quietly persevere in the face of all kinds of obstacles. Kkmama deserves our respect and admiration. Absolutely no ridicule towards her and the millions like her who make peoples’ lives better while living on the margins. Government, community foundations, the wealthy could and should do so much more to help people meet their goals. In my own large metropolitan area, 12% of the suburban population lives in poverty. Gabler does a disservice to this group because he purports “to feel their pain,” but he doesn’t.

To me Gabler’s Atlantic piece smacks of little more than opportunism. Some celebs leak sex tapes for attention. And some writers moan about finances for attention, as the Slate writer pointed out. I’m not usually this hard on people. Once I see a photo of him in the Bronx, helping to build a home for Habitat for Humanity, I’ll cut him some slack. Then again, he would say he just doesn’t have the money for bus fare to get there.

As one who is frequently aligned with @scout59, @dstark and @kkmama on so many issues, I’m a bit surprised to be on the opposite side on this one.

I think you have made some great points, midwestdad.

When I first saw this thread, I thought it would be about the many, many people in this country who consider themselves middle class but have really struggled with the changes in the economy in the past 30 or 40 years. I think of all the people who live in small town midwest (where I grew up) who formerly were able to work at well paying factory jobs with benefits. The jobs have been outsourced and now many of these folks cobble together part time jobs (no benefits) or low paid service jobs. I think of women who ended up on their own and are trying to make ends meet working low paid “pink collar” clerical or other jobs and have to pay for childcare. These people are not able to come up with $400, let alone save for retirement. And many of them work very, very hard. They did not have the options available to those like Gabler.

@MidwestDad3,

You can disagree. I still like your posts. :slight_smile:

Maybe in 1999, Gabler didn’t understand and wasn’t living the life of the middle class. He was living well. In 2016, maybe he does understand and lives a more middle class life. The life Gabler had 20 years ago is different than today.

I think very differently today than I did in 1981 or 1991. What I did or thought 35 years ago doesn’t define me today.

Was it Confucios who said, A person is different now than he was 10 minutes ago?

I think this is a key point. This was a successful guy, and he assumed that he’d go on being more and more successful. And in many ways he has–but that success didn’t translate into a lot more money. I think this is a significantly cautionary element to his story, and one I plan to tell my kids about.

I think many people feel some level of sympathy for him, but do not believe that his problems are what the middle class faces. More like the problems the rich face, who fritter away their earnings, and are forced to become middle class, having a tough time dealing with it.

I wonder if those who are highly sympathetic, are also supportive of his decision to convince his parents to deplete their retirement funds down to nothing, to pay for pricey schools for his children?

Here are some of the ways I see the middle class being squeezed:

Student loans from one’s own education. No mention of them in Gabler’s article and has wealthy parents so it’s unlikely he was paying them.
Investments that crashed, destroying an existing nest egg. He didn’t seem to have one.
Job loss. He quit his movie reviewing job and has apparently chosen not to take a more stable job which might interfere with his writing. This may or may not be the right choice, but it is a choice.
Spousal job loss. She quit her job to stay home.
Medical bills. No mention of any illness.
Disabled kids who require special care. Clearly not his girls.
Parents who need financial support. He was getting money from them, not the other way around.
Unexpected catastrophe for which one is underinsured. No fire or flood in his history.
Divorce or spousal death leading to a drop from two incomes to one. Nope.
Living in a low-cost area but just not making enough to get by with a buffer. I’ll give him the not making enough part but not the living in a low-cost area.
People who bought at the height of the housing market and ended up underwater. He bought at a time when he should have had significant appreciation before the housing crash.
College bills for the kids. His parents paid for his girls to go to college.

Yes, the middle class is squeezed. No, he is not a good spokesman for the squeezed middle class.

“I agree. You could call that making financial decision as others have. But it’s more about his attitude. He had a set of standards he equated with his identity a bit like an english aristocrat and won’t compromise. In him, we see a crumbling aristocrat not squeezed middle class. One can feel sorry but there’s not much others can help with. Others are hurting worse”

I think Iglooo nails it right here.

I hear the name of his new book is “I Need Money, Buy This Book”

@dstark. But if you have a chance to listen to him on the “On Point” podcast, he doesn’t really sound any different. Honestly, he sounds like he hasn’t learned a d*** thing. Just more bitter.

Agree Sue22, along with no more pensions, stagnant wages, high cost of health insurance, high cost of college for kids and the high cost of housing relative to salaries (although with much lower mortgage interest rates). We also have to look at the list of how “needs” have changed: more than one car in a family, cable TV, cell phones, internet: all things most of us did not have in our childhood.

The other thing that has changed is the need for both parents to be working and the high cost of childcare.

http://www.nationalmemo.com/neal-gabler-and-how-not-to-make-it/

@alh When my wife’s Polish immigrant grandmother died, we found $800 in her mattress. Not under it, IN it. Turns out she had enough for a $400 repair x2!

From the link in #335

I think it’s also something more. That if you live in the bubble that is NYC you think you are surrounded by wealth and everything really does cost more. So that it is very easy to believe you are middle class because your apartment would be a middle class apartment in any other city. (Well not San Francisco either!) I do get it.

As an architect, I see the insides of a lot of homes. Our town has the gamut and I’ve worked with recent immigrants cramming too many people into the house to gorgeous mansions. What interesting to me, is how many older folks are living with kitchens and bathrooms that haven’t been updated since the 1960s. But all the younger people want the granite and the marble. I’ve seen a handful of houses that are gorgeous, except the people have no furniture because they spent it all on the house. Other modest houses are impeccable inside.

@Sue22, You forgot a declining income or an increase in expenses. This can occur quickly or over a long period of time.

We all know I disagree with a vast majority of posters in this thread. I will say that if a large majority disagree with me, he is probably not an effective advocate.

I like what he wrote about the middle class. I liked reading his story.

In reality, Gabler or what he wrote are not going to make a difference.

THIS:

Gabler appears to have fallen into what my friend Gwen Moritz aptly defines as “the fatal trap of believing that [he] deserved a lifestyle [he] simply couldn’t afford.”

thanks @doschicos

And his STILL believes he was rooked and cheated out of his birth right. That’s what’s so stunning about Mr Gabler. His girls deserved expensive private schools whether he had the good sense or ability to save for them or not. That’s not the plight of the middle class, that’s the plight of a self important fool.