“I think what is probably rubbing people the wrong way in this story, is that after all the self reflection and baring his problems out there for everyone to see (which is very brave)… he still doesn’t seem to get it.”
And this is precisely why I think that his self-reflection was dishonest. This article is very provocative and was clearly written for a shock value… because this would sell it to a magazine that pays big bucks, and perhaps would get him other deals. I save my sympathy for people who deserve it. For many years we’ve been helping people who’ve experienced misfortune, difficult circumstances or simply could not make ends meet, and not just with $$. Many times we shared our own home for months or even for years. Things happen, we all know that, and it could be us who would need help tomorrow. But his case is something entirely different.
Well, I keep going back to my original point (see Post #10) that his inconsistent income is what did him in. He could have been a writer while also having a job that let him have a regular base income. He could have been an editor or a teacher. And through those jobs, he would also have received benefits.
People who want to be writers, artists, musicians, or other occupations that provide inconsistent incomes need to be realistic about how their lifestyle will work with that income stream.
The co housing movement perhaps functions in a similar way economically. Folks own separate dwellings while owning other parts of the property as a group.
He would have probably been fine, had he not had the real estate downturn, and then let his Ds choose such expensive schools, with the wedding to follow. It is a series of choices. One that someone with a family member to fall back on sometimes make.
I appreciate the second article, about those of us who do not feel we have any access to family largess, as it makes us very, very cautious about the bottom line and saving. I have rented rooms for the sake of that bottom line, and hear frequently from people, “Oh, I could never do that.” Wel, that is because you feel more entitled than those of us who have had hard choices to make, and are committed to financial solvency above all.
@rosered55: Thanks for your story. I am so sorry you are in such circumstances and hope things are looking up.
He certainly faced some bad circumstances: being a writer, can’t sell the Coop until the market went south and the stagnation of wages.
Yet his choices made that worse. He still chose to live in East Hampton and not in to some other LI or NJ community with good schools, but a wider range of real estate. But he had to have, at least on paper, enough income for Stanford to not offer need-based aid. How much income is that? Look at Zillow, lots in East Hampton, even those far from the water sell for close to $400K. Again, there were two potential bread winners in the family. Once the kids are in school full time, child care is not that expensive (especially if he was writing at home).
I can understand the idea of not expecting to have your income drop substantially and for it to rise. It is more difficult to plan for that when your income comes in clumps and you have kids, a house, etc. However, it appears that even when that become obvious, he continued to ignore reality.
Coops tend to be less expensive than condos, but have a lot more Rules and so can be more difficult to sell. Also, tend to have Rules about rentals, which condos don’t have.
I thought the Slate article was a good analysis of some of his points.
@alh Trying to balance the Carpe Diem with how long will it all last is challenging. I also see too many people who become unable to travel at a much younger age than expected. I want to do some things that cost money before it is too late. Not easy to figure out the correct balance. Enjoy.
This thread is similar to the one I started a while back regarding older folks barely getting by. I understand his struggle, but for the life of me I cannot understand why after all his financial obstacles, he thought it was a good idea to drain his 401k to pay for a wedding. Im also curious if his parents funded grad school? The kids at that point shouldve taken loans since they had undergrad covered.
Also I wouldnt put too much stock in didnt the wife know, she signed the returns. I sign for my husband all the time. Even if I did ask him to sign, he would never review the return.
Thanks @HImom for linking the response. I also really appreciated Gabler’s article on a subject that far too many people are guarded and less than honest about. Hi, my name is 85gonoles and I have a drinking problem. Or, a gambling problem. Or, an addiction to A, B or C. Healing starts with honesty, in my opinion.
I don’t have time to read this whole thread but, from scanning it, it sounds liek some are coming down on Gabler for personal choices. That is how I tend to see things also and the response that HImom linked in @98 is pretty much the way I look at things. I do not buy coffee or pastries at Starbucks because I get a half dozen or two pounds of the same thing at Sam’s Club and put it in my fridge. That is being frugal. It pays off huge over time.
I just bought a cell phone.
I don’t travel as much as I could.
I brown bag it for lunch and breakfast.
For many years, I didn’t have medical insurance by choice.
My savings rate was astronomical and I funneled it all into equity investments.
If you wait until 50 to start worrying about college funds or retirement you failed personal finance no matter what grades you got in school or where you went to school.
I also didn’t over pay for education, speaking of school.
It all adds up.
One thing that is for sure though is no matter how mice someone is one can’t always control in the incoem side of the equation. Here again, choices matter, but lots of it is uncontrollable. If you can’t control it why worry about it? I guess that means we should all move to near the beach and rent a flat and watch the waves hit the shore each morning and night but dear God that might get boring after a while. Like 2 hours. So, we stay in the game where we are.
I don’t understand the idea of draining your 401K for a wedding at all. Do people feel obligated to pay for a big wedding for a child? In this day and age? I will use whatever funds I have to pay for college for my daughter because I was raised to believe that education is a priority. But I think that if people want a big wedding they should pay for it themselves. Of course I’ve never been married so I may be less excited about weddings than some people are.
This right here is the death of the middle class. My husband and I always marvel that our parents who had retired from blue collar jobs, will have a better retirement than we could ever imagine. They have pensions, draw social security, and have great health insurance. The number of companies offering pensions has decreased dramatically. To think that the average worker is savvy enough to manage and fund his 401k properly is ludicrous, not to mention the market gyrations. I feel so sorry for those folks who were near retirement in 2008. That was the beauty of a pension, it was a defined benefit unlike 401k defined contribution. Its hard to convince someone to contribute 20% to a 401k when life gets in the way, no to mention some companies have horrible fund families that are part of their 401k.
When Gabler’s Walt Disney bio came out I read it cover to cover, and admired the detail that was in it. I’m sorry now to know that his financial footing was so rickety.
I had a sense of deja vu while reading Gabler’s column. Back in April 2012 NYT columnist Joe Nocera wrote a similar piece about his own financial decisions that left his retirement account drained, “My Faith-Based Retirement.” And Nocera was a business writer! As he acknowledged, if anyone should have known better it, it was him.
The tensions and disagreements over money that DW and I have had during our marriage have tended to be about spending too little, not too much. As grandchildren of Eastern European immigrants we both tend to be fairly frugal, which means missing out on some things. Have we saved too much? Maybe, but I’m thankful we won’t be having the stresses that Mr. & Ms. Gabler face.
I wonder why this is the case. I once read a “theory” that goes like this: After the end of the cold war, all of a sudden there is a much larger size of population who could and are willing to do the work. The basic force of the supply and demand gives the business owner an upper hand and the union becomes powerless or irrelevant. especially after decades of globalization, “companies without borders” phenomenon. Is it the case that the exact reason why people outside of communist world during the cold war could have a better life is that the people on the other side suffer economically, and the theory about “the pie will be bigger” and “trickle-down” are just myths rather than a reality?I But the history tells us that the economic isolation does not work either (e.g., Great Depression could be partly triggered by that.) I do not know. And I do not think Politicians know – they just say things to make you believe we could make the country “great” again so that he could get your votes. There is no easy solution, I would think.
Maybe I missed this, but is Gabler expecting significant funds from inheritance? It seems that the grandparents paid for the expensive college educations. Gabler was born in 1950. How important to him is it to have a retirement fund?
As for being frugal, here’s my version. When I didn’t have much money, I bought cheap stuff on sale. Now that I have more money, I buy expensive stuff on sale.
partyof5 - my dad was a teacher and my mom worked for the county court system here in California. My mom retired after 30 years in her late 50’s and my dad retired a couple of years later. Both had jobs that gave them pensions in addition to social security. My H and I both with professional jobs will not be able to retire as early as my parents even though we have contributed well to our 401K’s all of our working years.
Gabler lost his tv gig. His income was not increasing and he was paid sporadically. He had to pay income taxes before he received the income. He couldn’t sell his coop so he paid interest on 2 mortgages. When he moved to the East Hamptons, his kids went to public schools. His 401k was small. He invested in his kids education. The grandparents did the same.
He works 7 days a week from morning to night. He hasn’t taken a vacation in 10 years. He drives old cars. His wife was a stay at home mom. She is aged out of her previous career. They are still in better shape compared to millions of other Americans.
He should have told his wife about their financial issues. I am speculating that she should have been more proactive about their financials. Things were pretty good so she probably didn’t pay much attention.
I was talking to the head of a dept at an excellent grad school. She said there are too many phds. Phds from some schools aren’t worth much. Schools are using adjuncts. The pay sucks. Yet people want to have phds.
