<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/education/02michigan.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/02/education/02michigan.html</a></p>
<p>Very interesting. Certainly more appeals to come, including US Supreme Court. What are your thoughts? I believe most think that Michigan admissions certainly took into account race/gender regardless.</p>
<p>this will probably go to the supreme court either way. with different circuits ruling different ways they will most likely have to take the case</p>
<p>What the ****…</p>
<p>How does not having AA burden racial minorities?</p>
<p>That’s some grade A BS right there.</p>
<p>I agree, I think affirmative action is really unfair in that the people who benefit and get in will have generally worse stats than the other students. It’s like setting them up for failure. The standards are not different whether you were admitted in spite of AA or because of it. I’m thinking the supreme court strikes down AA because its 5 conservative justices and 4 liberal ones.</p>
<p>I truly don’t think it makes a difference either way. If UMich (or anywhere) wants to use AA, they’re going to use it. No law is going to change that unless they make it illegal to ask race, location, and name for that matter.</p>
<p>I agree, but their rationale for this decision seems crazy to me.</p>
<p>“It’s like setting them up for failure.”</p>
<p>[Black</a> graduation rate up 10 percent | The Michigan Daily](<a href=“http://www.michigandaily.com/content/black-graduation-rate-10-percent]Black”>Black graduation rate up 10 percent)</p>
<p>How do you know this? I don’t think I am a failure and neither are the majority of URM’s on campus. Talk to one and you might find out. Yes we do have a lower graduation rate than many Whites, Asians and other races, but I still don’t think this statement is accurate. The six year graduation rate for Michigan is 88%. For African American’s its 72%. Blacks have lower graduation rates at historically black colleges than at prestigious universities. Care to explain how Michigan or other prestigious universities are setting URM’s up for failure?</p>
<p>I agree. Michigan can do whatever they want to with admissions. With or without this law, they can admit as many minorities as they please. I think the Supreme Court will rule in favor 5 - 4, but chances are the Supreme court might not want to take this case up. Who knows.</p>
<p>^^ because if a less-than-qualified individual gets admitted purely on the basis of their skin color, they are more likely to fail out?</p>
<p>I ripped affirmative action in my Common App essay.</p>
<p>Two common claims in favor of Affirmative Action</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It makes up for slavery and other unfair treatment from the past.<br>
Slavery was terrible and I am a firm believer in equal rights. However, we cannot change the past. What happened sadly happened. Do 2 wrongs make a right? They sure don’t. If anyone should be getting benefits from affirmative action, it should be the people who were wronged in the first place. Call me crazy, but I doubt most of the people receiving preferential treatment today from universities (based on their race/ethnicity) were born during the time period from the establishment of slavery in America to the Civil Rights Movement. Just because their ancestors were treated poorly, does not mean their descendants should be treated better than everyone else. In fact, the recipients may not have had any connection to those who were mistreated in the past. Additionally, who ended slavery? Who gave black people the right to vote? Who gave women the right to vote? White males did. Why doesnt affirmative benefit those whose ancestors contributed to the previously mentioned feats?</p></li>
<li><p>We need affirmative action for diversity.
Diversity occurs naturally if you let it. Theres no need to jam it down anyones throat. I have a diverse group of friends. I did not make a checklist saying ok, well I need to be friends with someone from India, someone who is tall, someone who is athletic, someone who is musically gifted, someone who is mathematically gifted, someone who is fat, someone who is skinny, someone who is from Norway, someone who is great at Tennis, someone who wears glasses, etc. Yet I somehow have friends that fit one or more of all of the above mentioned characteristics. Rather than judging an individual based on a single characteristic, I take into account, among other things, his or her personality. I also consider the following questions: Is he or she or nice? Can we get along? Do we have things in common? </p></li>
</ol>
<p>We all know the common points against, so here are two uncommon ones. </p>
<p>-Affirmative Action ends up hurting those it is supposed to benefit. When the U-M affirmative Supreme Court cases were going on, there were minority students who felt that they were not worthy of admission. They believed that they only got in due to their race. No one should have to feel this way about his or her accomplishments. Unfortunately, recipients will most likely continue to question their admission as long as affirmative action exists. To give my opponents credit, someone who gets in due to Affirmative Action is probably not grossly under qualified. Nonetheless, they could get in over much more deserving applicants.</p>
<p>-This relates to my other point. Affirmative Action programs pretty much say youre not good enough to do it on your own. You need our help There are plenty of talented minority students who do not need the unfair advantage that affirmative action gives them. </p>
<p>Lastly, I listened to a radio caller other day who defends affirmative action. First, he mentioned equality. Then he said he was good enough to get into Michigan based on his grades. When asked (hypothetically) how he would feel if he got in over someone with a higher test score, he stated that he got a 1410 on the SAT. Then he talked about how he was on academic probation early in his college career, but he turned it around. He emphasized how he needed that opportunity to get back on track.</p>
<p>I have some questions for said individual (I did not get a chance to call in)</p>
<ol>
<li> If you were good enough to get into Michigan, then why did you need affirmative action?</li>
<li> You mentioned equality, how does using inequalities to combat inequalities from the past make present day equality?</li>
<li> Since when is it impossible to score above a 1410 on the SAT?</li>
<li> Do you know what hypothetical means?</li>
<li> What does being put on academic probation and then turning it around have to do with race or ethnicity?</li>
</ol>
<p>I don’t know any applicant that gets accepted to Michigan or any prestigious university for that matter “purely” on the basis of race. Race is a factor, but their application is still looked at holistically and completely. This is the same with graduate admissions. Minorities get in with lower stats, but they still perform near the same level as their peers.</p>
<p>Diversity occurs naturally? If that was the case and you admitted applicants solely based on their academic strengths, then there would be little or no minorities in college. Of course there is religious diversity, socioeconomic diversity and so on, but I think that racial diversity is more important. How many times are you going to get the perspective of a black LGBT person or an Hispanic rich person or a black Jewish person or a Native American who lived in inner city Detroit if you admit students solely based on Academic merit. The chances would be very unlikely. If universities solely admitted kids based on Academic merit, there would probably be two little to no URM representation, let alone ridiculous amounts of Asian and White representation.</p>
<p>Can someone give me the definition of qualified? Is it based on averages and academic merit alone? If that were the case, we wouldn’t have seen as many rejections of qualified students at Michigan than we saw this year. If your essays suck you can get rejected. What does that mean? You were not qualified to attend the university.</p>
<p>My friend sat in the court when this ruling occurred. Obviously he was for the ban, but then again this will go to the Supreme Court anyway. Let’s see what happens.</p>
<p>I’m not saying anyone gets in purely on race. Nonetheless, why should race even be considered in the first place?</p>
<p>“Minorities get in with lower stats, but they still perform near the same level as their peers.”</p>
<p>It’s great that they perform well. However, there are Ivy League rejects who could out perform current Ivy League students. Are you saying they should have been accepted instead of the current students (assuming the rejects had less impressive applications)?</p>
<p>@Entertainer why do you believe that certain groups of people should get an advantage over others simply because of an innate quality that has no effect on who that person is or what that person can achieve? Why can people not be treated equally? I doubt you would support giving admissions preference to jews who have had a much more recently gone through enormous discrimination. </p>
<p>The UCs have gotten rid of AA and look how great there system is(probably the best system for public education) and how diverse there campuses are (Berkeley is 43% Asian). Students get in based on their accomplishments, not because they were born into a certain race.</p>
<p>“Can someone give me the definition of qualified? Is it based on averages and academic merit alone? If that were the case, we wouldn’t have seen as many rejections of qualified students at Michigan than we saw this year. If your essays suck you can get rejected. What does that mean? You were not qualified to attend the university.”</p>
<p>I understand that there are qualified students who do not get admitted. If there are more qualified applicants than there are spots available, then qualified people are going to be rejected. Please tell me you are joking about the essays. Why would they have you write 3.5 essays if they had nothing to do with your admissions? The essay can be used to differentiate between students with similar academic ability. </p>
<p>I’m sure there are black LGBT people, rich Hispanic person, and black Jewish person, and Native Americans who lived in inner city Detroit who can get into the University of Michigan based on Academic merit. How does being any of the above put you at an academic disadvantage?</p>
<p>^ Constantly hearing about negative stereotypes really keep African-Americans down.</p>
<p>Well put mjmay7</p>
<p>I know that racial affirmative action does serves as somewhat of a proxy for socie-economic affirmative action. Though the current system does screw over poor whites/asians.</p>
<p>Note: I think socio-economic affirmative action is a good idea, but not racial affirmative action.</p>
<p>^ Poor people get a boost too.</p>
<p>@woeishe just because someone is black does NOT mean they are African-American and to say so is just as politically incorrect as you are trying to stop yourself from being. We have black people from Jamaica, France, Belgium, England, Argentina, AMERICA and so to use the term “African-American” is simply wrong. You can’t lump them all together as is they are one mass. Just because someone is dark doesn’t mean they had to be from Africa. Also, I don’t call myself European-American or get offended when people don’t call me that.</p>
<p>^ Tangent? Anyways, hearing and seeing negative stereotypes comstantly bring African-Americans(and others?) down.</p>
<p>Woeshie, I hope you are not talking about my comment. I believe an African American student can be just as academically talented as a white student, Asian student, or any other kind.</p>