Credibility of law degree program?

<p>My niece has decided that she wants to practice law in the near future. She is very bright and is in a program where she attends a community college for her last two years of high school, effectively earning her an Associate’s degree.</p>

<p>After she is done with that she said she would matriculate to the University of Washington. After talking to her guidance counselor at the college, she said she will train to become a paralegal. She said that if she works as a paralegal for a lawyer for four years, he will sign off on her J.D. and she will be certified to take the state bar. </p>

<p>Is it me being overprotective, or does this seem very fishy?</p>

<p>

What? Huh?</p>

<p>That’s what I said.</p>

<p>The rules for admission to the bar in Washington are at the Washington Courts Rules website. They do identify an alternative path to the bar in lieu of law school, but it’s not by working as a paralegal. This exception requires a four year degree, enrollment in the “Law Clerk Program” and additional requirements for four years of study under the supervision of a practicing attorney as listed below. </p>

<pre><code> RULE 3
APPLICANTS TO TAKE THE BAR EXAMINATION

 (a) Prerequisite for Admission. Every person desiring to be admitted

to the Bar of the State of Washington must be of good moral character
and must qualify for and pass a bar examination.

 (b) Qualification for Bar Examination. To qualify to sit for the bar

examination, a person must present satisfactory proof of either (i)
graduation from a law school approved by the Board of Governors, or
(ii) completion of the law clerk program prescribed by these rules,
or (iii) admission to the practice of law by examination, together
with current good standing, in any state or territory of the United
States or the District of Columbia or any jurisdiction where the
common law of England is the basis of its jurisprudence, and active
legal experience for at least 3 of the 5 years immediately preceding
the filing of the application. “Active legal experience” shall mean
experience either in the active practice of law, or as a teacher at
an approved law school, or as a judge of a court of general or
appellate jurisdiction, or any combination thereof, in a state or
territory of the United States or in the District of Columbia or in
any jurisdiction where the common law of England is the basis of its
jurisprudence.
</code></pre>

<p>APR RULE 6
LAW CLERK PROGRAM</p>

<pre><code> (a) Applicants. Every applicant for enrollment in the law
</code></pre>

<p>clerk program shall:</p>

<pre><code> (1) Be of good moral character;

  (2) Present satisfactory proof of having been granted a
  bachelors degree, other than a bachelor of laws, by a
  college or university offering such a degree on the
  basis of a 4-year course of study;

  (3) Obtain regular, full-time employment in the State
  of Washington as a law clerk with (i) a judge of a
  court of general, limited, or appellate jurisdiction,
  or (ii) a lawyer or firm of lawyers licensed to
  practice in this state and actively engaged in the
  practice of law;

  (4) Submit on forms provided by the Bar Association (i)
  an application for admission to the law clerk program,
  (ii) the tutors statement required by subsection (b)(3)
  of this rule, and (iii) an application fee; and

  (5) Appear for an interview, provide any additional
  information or proof, and cooperate in any
  investigation, as may be deemed relevant by the Board
  of Governors; and

  (6) Pay such fees as may be set by the Board of
  Governors with the approval of the Supreme Court.

(b) Tutors. A lawyer or judge may act as a tutor for only
one law clerk at a time. To be eligible to act as a tutor in
the law clerk program, a lawyer or judge shall:

  (1) Be an active member in good standing of the Bar
  Association, or be a judicial member who is currently
  elected or appointed to an elected position, provided
  that if a disciplinary sanction has been imposed upon
  the lawyer or judge within the 5 years immediately
  preceding approval of the law clerk's application for
  enrollment, the Board of Governors shall have the
  discretion to accept or reject the lawyer or judge as
  tutor;

  (2) Have been actively and continuously engaged in the
  practice of law or have held the required judicial
  position for at least 10 years immediately preceding
  the filing of the law clerks application for
  enrollment; this may be a combination of active
  practice and judicial experience; and

  (3) Provide a tutors statement certifying to the law
  clerk's employment and to the tutors eligibility, and
  agreeing to instruct and examine the law clerk in the
  curriculum prescribed by the Law Clerk Board with the
  approval of the Board of Governors.

(c) Length of Study. A law clerk, whose application for
enrollment has been accepted by the Board of Governors,
shall study for 4 calendar years. Each calendar year shall
consist of 12 months, with a minimum of 120 hours of study
each month, including the time spent in performing the
duties of a law clerk. The tutor shall give personal
supervision to the law clerk averaging at least 3 hours each
week. “Personal supervision” is defined as time actually
spent with the law clerk for the exposition and discussion
of the law, the recitation of cases, and the critical
analysis of the law clerk’s written assignments.

(d) Course of Study. The subjects to be studied, the
sequence in which they are to be studied, and any other
matters pertaining thereto shall be as prescribed by the Law
Clerk Board with the approval of the Board of Governors.

(e) Examinations. All law clerks shall:

  (1) Each month, complete a written examination
  prepared, administered, and graded by the tutor. The
  examination shall be answered without research,
  assistance, or reference to source materials during the
  examination;

  (2) Annually, or at such other intervals as may be
  established by the Law Clerk Board, appear with the
  tutor before the Law Clerk Board for an oral evaluation
  of the law clerks progress.

(f) Certificates. In addition to the tutor’s statement
required by section (b)(3) of this rule, the tutor shall
submit, on forms provided by the Bar Association:

  (1) A monthly certificate, accompanying the written
  examination, stating the number of hours the law clerk
  studied each week, the number of hours spent by the
  tutor in personal supervision each week, that the
  written examination was administered as required, and
  that, in the opinion of the tutor, the law clerk is
  progressing satisfactorily; and

  (2) At the conclusion of the law clerk's course of
  study, a certificate stating that the law clerk has
  completed the prescribed length and course of study,
  and, in the tutor's opinion, is qualified to take the
  bar examination and is competent to practice law.

(g) Termination. The Board of Governors may direct a law
clerk to change tutors, and may terminate the enrollment of
law clerks or remove tutors from the program. The Law Clerk
Board may recommend to the Board of Governors that the
enrollment of the law clerk in the program be terminated
for:

  (1) Failure to complete the prescribed length and
  course of study within 6 years from the date the law
  clerk's application for admission was accepted;

  (2) Failure of the tutor to submit the monthly
  examinations and certificates at the end of each month
  in which they are due;

  (3) Failure to comply with any of the requirements of
  the law clerk program; and

  (4) Any other grounds deemed pertinent by the Law Clerk
  Board.

(h) Advanced Standing. The Board of Governors may grant
advanced standing to an enrolled law clerk who has attended
either an approved or a nonapproved law school.

(i) Effective Date. The revision of this rule shall not
apply retroactively to any law clerk whose enrollment has
been approved and accepted by the Board of Governors prior
to the effective date of this revision. Each law clerk may
complete the course of study under the version of the rule
in effect on the date the application for enrollment to the
law clerk program was accepted.

[Amended effective September 1, 1984; March 6, 1992;
September 1, 1994; June 2, 1998; April 1, 2003; January 13,
2009.]
</code></pre>

<p>I don’t know what the bar pass rate is for students in the Law Clerk Program vs. students in traditional law schools. I’d worry.</p>

<p>Hmm yeah she might want to talk to someone else about the Law Clerk program. This is total speculation but – I think a lot of law firms (like a lot of American institutions in general) are very credentialist, and might favor those with law school degrees over those who became licensed through the clerk path. It might be a fine program, but she should get a few other opinions (maybe call up some big firms in the area?) If she has good grades, she could also probably get a scholarship to a good law school, which might end up saving her time.</p>

<p>Ask people who might know this stuff
[Top</a> Law Schools](<a href=“http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/index.php]Top”>Top Law Schools - Index page)</p>

<p>Schnead, this proclamation from your niece is utter nonsense. Though I’ve spent very little time in the great state of Washington, I have worked in large law firms for 22 years, and if you are going to have a career as an attorney I’m pretty sure you still need a 4-year undergrad degree followed by a J.D. From an accredited law school. Many recent law school grads who have actually passed the bar are having trouble getting jobs in their chosen field, especially if they haven’t graduated from a top tier law school law school, and this has been the case even prior to the current US. Recession. It’s a very tough field right now, and probably won’t change anytime. The post above sounds like wa state may have some kind of exception but I doubt the rule is successfully invoked and too many careers are made this way…
You will do your bright niece a favor by encouraging her to talk to a professor in the know at U. Wasington. After reading this thread.</p>

<p>I knew I’d read something about this somewhere several years ago. [LawSchool.com</a>, LawTV’s site for law students, lawyers, future lawyers, law profs, college students studying for the LSAT, and law school graduates taking the bar exam.](<a href=“http://www.lawschool.com/noneed.htm]LawSchool.com”>http://www.lawschool.com/noneed.htm)</p>

<p>The option exists, and if they pass the bar exam, they have learned the material deemed necessary by the state. Unless that attorney who provides the opportunity is also bringing her on after she passes the bar, I would be concerned about employment opportunities. This is not because I think she would be any less ready to practice law but because employers are swayed by credentials and tend to look for employees much like themselves. I believe that our system that pushes 3 years of law school is a faulty one and I would love to see an alternative one develop. There is no practical reason for a 3 year law degree program. I think law should be an undergrad program with a practicum or something more akin to the path to becoming an accountant. There is nothing so inherently difficult or intellectually demanding as to require a three year program after college.</p>

<p>^ But in the ever competitive job market, the LL.B. has gone that of the Dodo.</p>