<p>Thank you violadad for understanding my situation.</p>
<p>Maybe other people will start to understand my frustration.</p>
<p>Well, just be careful. If the bank accidentally puts money into your account, or the IRS sends you a big check to which you aren’t entitled, if you spend the bank’s money or cash the IRS check (to compensate you for your trouble and frustration), it’ll cause you trouble.</p>
<p>I personally wouldn’t keep a $1500 computer for one month of frustration.</p>
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<p>One more point of information: back in the “old” days I had a career in the direct mail marketing industry. The rules governing stated shipping dates, prepaid transactions via check, money order and credit card transaction were pretty rigid and governed by the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). </p>
<p>For prepaid transactions, including credit card charges for merchandise made PRIOR to actual shipdate, merchandise had to be shipped within the stated shipping parameters established in advertising materials.</p>
<p>If a delay in shipment was to be less than thirty days after the prromised shipdate, the seller (company) had to contact the customer and could ship the order unless the customer cancelled .</p>
<p>If a delay was to exceed thirty days beyond the original ship date, the seller (company) was mandated to contact the customer and get customer approval/acceptance of the revised shipping date or AUTOMATICALLY deem the order cancelled, and return any payment.</p>
<p>Now, I don’t know if the rules have been modified, or if they have been expanded to include internet sales, as I’ve been out of the business for a number of years. But under the parameters of old, the responsibility rested on the seller (company) and not the customer if a shipment was not made within thirty days of an advertised/promised shipdate.</p>
<p>The fine at the time was $10,000 per occurrence. Trust me, we jumped through hoops in the rare instance where we could not meet our stated shipping parameters.</p>
<p>That’s interesting about the FTC rules, violadad.
I’ve reread the OP’s original post several times, and there is one part I am having a little trouble with. It sounds like the seller was an online store of some sort. Can’t tell if it was a little mom and pop type seller or a big mega electronics store. Either way, I would be very surprised if there was not something, somewhere on their website about how to cancel orders, or what their policy was about this, or about returning an item. Also, since the OP said he emailed the seller (though didn’t get a response), I am not clear what that email to the seller contained. Was it just asking for more information about the delivery date? Was it to tell them you had a deadline due to start of school or what? Since there is obviously a way to email the company, the correct thing to do would have been to email them to CANCEL the order and to keep a copy of that email. Then, if they shipped it anyway, you would perhaps be in a different situation (though returning it is still the right thing to do in the big scheme of things…). </p>
<p>I am not familiar with the FTC rules, but the “right” thing to do with such a big ticket item is to email the company, say they erroneously shipped it and to please provide you with a prepaid method of returning it. I would reiterate that you no longer need the computer and had considered your order cancelled when they were unable to deliver on time and did not respond to your email, but that you DO NOT AUTHORIZE a charge on your credit card for this unwanted item (and keep a copy of this email as well). Then, if you hear nothing back, maybe you can sleep a little better at night not pursuing it further. But at least you tried. I understand you lack of desire to go out of your way for this company that didn’t treat you well, but in the end, you have to feel good about the choices you make.</p>
<p>There have been lots and lots of forums and blogs about bad or fraudulent online sellers. I am not totally convinced that this is one of the latter. Sloppy- yes, fraudulent, probably not. Often these are third party sellers who think the item is in stock from the place they purchase it from, but they dont actually have it in stock themselves (very costly to keep such inventory on hand). They list it as in stock on their website and then order it from their wholesaler. If the wholesaler doesnt have it in stock, thats when you get advised that the shipment will be delayed (while the seller either waits or tries to find another wholesaler). This is just normal (though perhaps not the best) business practice.</p>
<p>One of the industries fraught with these significantly delayed shipping dates is college textbook sellers/resellers-- especially international sellers. I’ve heard of many students who can’t get their books until the course is practically over, and have trouble getting the order cancelled or the charge reversed. What a hassle. </p>
<p>There used to be a trick that fraudelent companies used to string you along for over 60 days before advising you that they cant get the item. By then, your chargeback rights with your credit card company have expired. My rule of thumb is to try to work with the seller of something I bought. If it starts to smell like I am being strung along, I contact the creditcard company within the 60 days to protect my rights and get them to contact the seller. I haven’t though, had the pleasure of receiving something I didn’t pay for. Good luck.</p>
<p>On credit card chargebacks, I have done some consulting with a business that does their processing without the card in their possession for most charges. They just got charged back for work done last May. I always thought you only had 60 days after the billing date, but this happened in November- I saw it happen, heard the calls. Any one know why a Visa/MC would allow that? It was several thousand $</p>
<p>violadad, even though both you and the OP had spend time and effort dealing with inept businesses, your situations are still quite different. No one could fault your ethics: you gave more than fair notice to the business about the mixup. The ebay seller never shipped what you really wanted; if he had, you’d have paid him for it, and removed the negative feedback.</p>
<p>The OP, on the other hand, got something–a valuable something–that he really wanted for nothing. I’d be on his side if he’d tried to contact–even once!–the seller OR the credit card company after getting the “free” computer. One email, one phone call, saying that he’d received this, the company should contact him to arrange for its return. He didn’t bother making that one call, which tells me all I need to know about his motivations. </p>
<p>Maybe we should submit this story to the NYT Ethicist.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove, the text I quoted in the post above was from one of the OP’s posts. I draw attention to this line again: </p>
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</p>
<p>I agree that one attempt at contact was not enough. I also agree that the OP may well have acted far too quickly. Many of us old geezers remember doing business via mail, when the internet and email, even toll free numbers were not the norm.</p>
<p>It is unreasonable to assume you will get a response to a customer service inquiry via email within 24 hours. It happens, but it is rare. The industry standard is usually 3 business days. </p>
<p>For a high ticket item like this computer, I would have pursued contact for thirty days, and tried a couple of methods: email, snail mail and phone contact. Personally, if I could not wait for the merchandise, I would have cancelled the order with the seller, and refused delivery of the merchandise from the carrier. If I got no communication from the seller within 3-5 days from my notification of cancellation, I personally would have emailed the seller again and given them another 3-5 days before requesting a chargeback.</p>
<p>What bothers me is the bad/misinformation from the company response the OP states he received via email:</p>
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</p>
<p>Clearing a misleading shipping statement in their ad, or poor internal customer service and information flow.</p>
<p>For those of you who still think I planned all of this to get a free computer: You are wrong.</p>
<p>I contacted the computer company and kindly asked when my computer was going to be shipped. There was no customer service phone number, so I had to resort to e-mail. I received no reply after a week. I filed a chargeback with my credit card company. A few days after that, the company finally contacted me and said I was being impatient.</p>
<p>About 2 weeks after that, I received the computer.</p>
<p>Why should I call the comptuer company who called me impatient and provided bad customer service to fix their mistake?</p>
<p>Because you didn’t pay for the computer?</p>
<p>violadad, the issue I’m having is that the OP never attempted to contact the company or the credit card company AFTER he’d received the computer. </p>
<p>I’ve been in that situation. I ordered a custom engraved leather bag, which didn’t show up after 6 weeks when the website said to expect delivery in 4. Much incredibly frustrating back and forth over a week with the company, lots of lying on their end, ending with me telling them that if I didn’t have a shipping tracking number for an overnight delivery within an hour, I would call my credit card company and get a chargeback. The company didn’t call, I got my chargeback.</p>
<p>Naturally, the package appeared on the recipient’s porch the next day. I suppose I could have thought to myself that I’d already gone through a great deal of trouble and angst with this numbskull company, and that They Should Pay for my lost time and trouble. But I didn’t. I called the credit card company and had them reinstate the charge. I think that’s pretty much what all of the posters on this thread would have done, with one notable exception.</p>
<p>SlitheyTove, I was under the assumption the OP did attept to contact the company after the computer was received. Perhaps I misread it. (I understand there’s a similar thread in another part of the forum which I haven’t read.)</p>
<p>If the OP has kept the computer and not contacted the company, then the company should be contacted and the item returned/picked up at their expense. The right move should have been to refuse delivery of the merchandise once the order was cancelled or charge back processed. At that point, there IS no valid order.</p>
<p>I admit I’ve read the thread a few times and I find the timeline confusing.</p>
<p>In the event he has tried to contact the seller and repeated requests to pick up this merchandise are ignored, then it’s his after a reasonable time frame, thirty days at least. He can dump it, donate it, keep it, or bill them for storage fees if he hasn’t opened it.</p>
<p>I’d annoy the pants off of them and bill them for storage with interest, sending monthly statements for a year. ;)</p>
<p>deleteeeeee</p>
<p>ViolaDad, I am with you there, if he has attempted contact and they refuse to do a pick up, then after a while I would stop fighting them, but the posters here are under the impression that the OP has only made that one early contact asking when the computer would be delivered.</p>
<p>My impression from the postings is that he has only made that one and only attempt, including canceling via his credit card charge back not by contacting the company or by doing both.</p>
<p>football, he is saying YOU should contact the company</p>
<p>“the company should be contacted”</p>
<p>I never contacted the credit card company after I recieved the computer.</p>
<p>It is their job to contact me, not the other way around.</p>
<p>Signing off this discussion now, Football you are deliberately obtuse and self-serving, sorry, if you were my kid I would be tempted to smack you for your attitude alone.</p>
<p>Karma, dude, karma, someday you will be on the other side of your actions, I hope you remember this and grow from it.</p>
<p>Attitude??</p>
<p>I have been on the other side a few times before. I been burned on EBAY for people not sending me the items I paid for.</p>
<p>This is the real busienss world. Companies should take responsibilities for their actions. If they can’t, they shouldn’t be in business.</p>
<p>This is the real world. Where the ethics of every individual shows. By the choices he makes. Individuals should take responsibility for their actions. If they can’t, they should be recognized for what they are. Dishonest. Or criminal.</p>
<p>Your behavior is one, or the other. Or both.</p>
<p>Very simple.</p>
<p>I never lied to anybody. It is simple as that.</p>
<p>Individuals should take responsibility for their actions. The computer company should have taken responsibility and provided better customer service. Therefore, I would have never filed a chargeback and in effect the company wouldn’t have lost $1,500.</p>
<p>They shouldn’t have lost the $1500 because you should never have received the item after you did your chargeback. There is probably a time lag between when you do your chargeback and when the company is notified by the creditcard company. In the meantime, they have no way of knowing you don’t want and aren’t planning to pay for the item. If you never officially cancelled your order, you should not keep the item. If you officially cancelled it and they then sent it, as I said earlier today, you might have a leg to stand on. Sorry- keeping the computer is wrong.</p>