I’ve encountered a dilemma on the CSS Profile and wondering if anyone has feedback.
My Son and Daughter (2025) are both high achievers. Applying to Ivies as well as other schools. We are a full pay family.
When putting down what our parental contribution will be, I am stuck with this quandary: if we put a fraction of the full tuition (say $30k of the $90k bill), will Ivies hold that against them, because essentially we are saying the kids will have to take loans and the school is not assured it’s getting a full pay student?
Conversely, if parents put that they will pay for the full amount ($90k of a $90k bill), will schools that might have otherwise offered them merit aid choose not to offer merit because “we can pay the full boat”?
If anyone has any thoughts or experience with this dilemma I would appreciate it.
The Ivies have need blind admissions. That means your ability to pay is not a factor in the admission decision. And anyway, it doesn’t matter what you say you can pay - each school determines what they think you should be able to pay.
True merit scholarships don’t have a need based component, so again, it doesn’t matter. In fact, for the vast majority of schools you don’t even need to file FAFSA/CSS.
If you’re sure you don’t qualify for need based aid (have you run the NPC for Princeton?), then why apply for financial aid at all? Why even file the CSS? (Or FAFSA, unless your kids plan to take federal loans).
Ivy League schools do not offer merit. If you are full pay, expect your bill will be 90k. If you are only willing to pay 30k, you need to find schools that do offer merit. There are many that will “fit the bill” for high achieving students. But not the Ivy League.
I honestly have no idea why they ask. Maybe they want you to think about what you can pay, since a lot of people don’t think about it early enough. But to my knowledge, the information isn’t used.
I believe OP was referring to schools that do:
It is such a stressful question. Caused me a lot of angst over the 6 years I filled out the Profile.
I appreciate your response. As far as the “true merit” scholarships, nearly every school that advertises merit also require filing the CSS and/or the FAFSA. So reading the tea leaves, I wonder how much they weigh a parents ability to pay when parsing out their merit dollars.
As far as Ivies and “need blind”, i hope they truly are. I’m reminded of a podcast where I heard Vassar relies on its full pay students to carry their financial need students. So the suspicious mind in me says at some level, they can’t run a deficit every year, even given their massive endowments, and maybe what tips the scales one way or another is the ability to pay.
I understand Ivies don’t give merit. But I’m stuck as to what I think is a Catch-22:
A) Suzy applies to Cornell. So while our EFC is full pay, we put down on CSS that we will only pay $30k of the $90k bill. While Cornell is “need blind” they see Suzy will have to borrow $60k because her stingy parents won’t pay. So they waitlist/deny her because they need a nice $90k check.
Or
B) Parents put down they will contribute $90k of the $90k bill. Suzy also applied to Fordham. Suzy would perhaps qualify for a merit award, but Fordham sees Suzy’s parents have money and offer less merit/no merit at all because they can afford it.
So that’s my predicament. What’s the right number for parent contribution that doesn’t hurt them at an ivy but also doesn’t hurt them at a less prestigious institution that gives merit.
That is absolutely not true. I can connect via a personal message if you’d like more details.
No! “Need blind” means that the admissions committee has no idea whether Suzy needs to borrow $60k or $0 or needs full aid. They don’t see this information so it doesn’t influence their admission decision.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding but in much of my research it seems they want you to file the FAFSA because they can offset merit aid with government aid. So from what I’ve read it appears Fordham and Rutgers require financial info. Villanova doesn’t for merit aid. Lafayette reads like you have to file the FAFSA too.
There are a few schools (not Rutgers though) that do require FAFSA for merit aid. But none I know of that require CSS.
Cornell is both need blind AND understands that Suzy cannot borrow 60K (times 4- so 240K in total) because the federal loans are capped- and no private lender will lend a kid that kind of money with no collateral and no income.
You are overthinking this. Kids with need get into Cornell all the time- kids with high need, kids with modest need. When the dust settles, the family can decide if the aid that is granted is adequate- and if not, hopefully, the kid has less expensive options.
But “it is what it is” as the young folks say. If your EFC is full pay, you are not likely to be getting need based aid anywhere which is a sign that it’s time to switch to merit based schools if you are unwilling to pay your EFC. Pretty simple.
Fordham requires filing of FAFSA, but that’s not due until the student enrolls. They do NOT require CSS if you won’t qualify for need based aid. Make sure by running NPCs.
For Rutgers, FAFSA isn’t required for merit with the exception of those who qualify for Scarlet Guarantee/Garden State Guarantee AFAIK.
I don’t see anything at Lafayette which suggests needing to file FAFSA, let alone CSS. (unless you are wanting need based aid). Lafayette Scholarships - Admissions · Admissions · Lafayette College
Regardless, if things are unclear, call FA and ask…that’s an easy and quick phone call. The vast majority of schools do NOT require FAFSA or CSS Profile to disburse merit aid.
Need blind means need blind. Admissions will not see this answer on the CSS Profile, they don’t have access to CSS profile. Further, they wouldn’t make any inference even if they did see the $60K…they have no idea your situation…maybe a family member is picking up the remaining contribution, or the student has won some type of external scholarship. They have no way of knowing.
AFAIK Fordham is need blind for domestic applicants, so again, wouldn’t see this answer on the CSS Profile. Again, you can call and ask FA questions. You could even call (anonymously) and ask admissions if not applying for financial aid/not having financial need impacts awarding of merit aid…it sure doesn’t look like it based on Class of 2027 CDS Section H2/H2A which shows 471 of 742 (2414-1672) first year students without financial need were awarded merit aid.
Maybe I’m unsophisticated, but isn’t the FAFSA a bird of a different feather? Like CSS maybe takes into home equity whereas FAFSA doesn’t, but essentially I’m showing my hand to the dealer. So maybe Ivies are truly need blind and don’t see, but doesn’t the concern for merit based still exist? Maybe they don’t ask for CSS, but they almost certainly want FAFSA. So they will still say he’s crying with two loaves under his arms.
Ultimately my money is not fungible. So if I don’t full pay for an Ivy, I’m bargain shopping for the next best school and that means trying to maximize merit aid.
I sent you a private message to explain what I meant in my posts. Look for the green envelope icon at the top right.
Thanks.
If you’re looking to maximize merit you will need to go down at least 2-3 tiers. The “next best schools” after the Ivy+ schools won’t provide much merit (if any at all).
There are better strategies for maximizing merit aid besides trying to out game the financial aid forms.
All colleges are looking for geographic diversity. So applying to a merit awarding college which is NOT within a 50 mile radius of your home, and has a history of awarding significant merit to kids with the stats that your kid has- a much greater probability than fiddling with the forms.
Many colleges are looking for kids who are likely to focus on “less oversubscribed” majors. So a merit-awarding school which has waiting lists to enroll in Psych 1 or Intro to Computer Science or Bio 1 with lab… may have PLENTY of room (and is motivated) to be awarding merit to a kid who is passionate about Latin American history and after maxxing out on his HS’s Spanish offerings is now teaching himself Portuguese.
A need blind college won’t know that you don’t intend to pay your EFC (and most of them won’t care- they give what they give and it’s up to a family to either figure it out or decline the offer). And a merit awarding college in most instances is offering merit because your kid is bringing something desirable to the table- being from Wyoming. GPA and scores higher than their median (in some cases much higher). National Merit scholar. Etc.
The schools that want FAFSA for merit aid are few and far between. Posters have shared some schools on this thread that do require that, and some don’t require FAFSA to be filed until AFTER merit aid is granted (e.g., Fordham, W&L).
IMO you are overthinking what you put on CSS profile for parent contribution…it will have zero impact on merit aid. Of course, I would be persuaded by direct evidence to the contrary.
I agree with dadofjerseygirl…if you want to maximize merit aid, you are looking at going several tiers below the Ivies (because really, they are just providing discounts to get fannies in seats) and/or competing for highly competitive high dollar merit based scholarships at the more selective schools that offer that. Does each of your kids have at least one affordable highly likely/safety school that they would be happy to attend?
No one wants to pay full price, not even people who can afford it many times over. Colleges with need based aid have policies and procedures that help them determine how to award funds to the neediest students. Schools that have merit aid are sometimes required by the terms of a scholarship to award it to a student with need, which is why the FAFSA is sometimes required by schools so that those scholarships can go to students who qualify. But other merit scholarships may be awarded without regard to need - and even if a FAFSA is required by the school for merit consideration, it won’t negatively impact a student for merit awards that have no requirement for need. As has been mentioned, the criteria for other scholarships may include trying to put together a diverse class … in terms of geography, student interests, leadership, life experience, etc.
Appreciate the response. I will review each school before I submit financial data Willy-nilly. I guess I am overthinking it.
And I recognize that the tranche of schools that will give substantial merit aid will be down several pegs. So then the analysis will be what is worth the money: Lehigh at $80k? Rutgers at $40k? Or Hofstra at $10k? That’s a conundrum unto itself.
There are hundreds of threads on CC examining the “worth” question. But for many of us, it really depends on the kid. Certainly did for me.
Full pay was “worth it” at some schools, not worth it at others. But we had a good sense of the kids appetite for intellectual challenges, rigor, academic intensity. We told them upfront that we would not pay more for nice weather, access to beaches, ski weekends, better parties, pretty campus. We would pay “more for more”- more facilities for intellectual engagement, depth of research or supervised independent study opportunities, supportive fellowships and the like, etc.
YMMV. I know kids who are pretty much living the country club/resort life on mom and dad’s dime (almost 90K per year) to phone it in academically and play their sport, be social chair of their sorority, and spend extra money on “self-care” (which seems to be a lot of hair styling and sunless tanning.) That wasn’t an option for my kids. And frankly, I wouldn’t have paid for that even at 10-20K per year. Get a job and vacation in Bermuda, kid.