My DD got accepted into UW, Baylor, Georgetown, UPitt, UCR, UCSC, UAB, URoch, etc for Premed (with scholarships from most of them).
Secondly, she got accepted to CSU fullerton + LECOM EAP program for D.O.
Being closer to home, we narrowed down to A) CSUF+LECOM or B) premed at UCR (Honors). Could you please shed some light on whether DO track is worth it or she should stick to UCR premed? Advantage with this DO track (EAP) obviously is guaranteed admission to LECOM without MCAT. Unable to decide.
If any LECOM graduates out there, what’s your experience like? We are mainly concerned about “limited” scope to residency match in specialty areas like neuro with LECOM track.
Any inputs are highly appreciated. Thanks
@momsearcheng has a kid in a different LECOM undergrad feeder. But my guess is she can give you some ideas. Her student also had multiple other acceptances, and chose the LECOM DO path.
A DO can match to just about any specialty. Are you talking about regular neurology? If so, IIRC it’s not amongst the most competitive residency specialties.
But I will add…your possible medical school student should enter medical school with an open mind. They will do a number of required rotations, and they might find something else that piques their interest…more.
It’s more difficult for DOs to match into surgical fields (this includes OB/GYN) than MDs due to the more limited exposure they get fo surgical specialties and subspecialty during clinical rotations due to the lack of a home hospital.
DOs more typically match into non-procedural specialties: family medicine, internal medicine, PMR, pediatrics, neurology, pathology. Also DO candidates have harder time matching at academic residency programs than do MD candidates.
If your child is interested in neurology, 144 DO grads matched into neurology residencies in 2024. That number has been pretty consistent over the last 3 years. Neurology is not an especially competitive specialty, esp if your child is not insistent on matching at a top academic residency program.
DOs have also matched quite well in emergency medicine, but EM is having its issues right now due to an oversupply of EM physicians.
Here’s LECOM’s Match List of 2023. (I can’t find 2024 online)
The match list includes graduates from all 4 of LECOM’s campuses (Erie,NY, Elmira, NY, Bradenton, FL, and Greensberg, PA) so how one campus performs vs another is unknown.
16 matches in Neurology and to some pretty strong residency programs.
Thanks @thumper1 (for referring @WayoutWestMom)
I see that @momsearcheng has “Engineering” kids. Did not see LECOM undergrad. @momsearcheng - please comment and shed some light on this topic. Thanks
Thank You @WayOutWestMom !! Great information and you seem to be very knowledgeable !
A couple of more questions:
Why is there a “lack of home hospital” - I thought LECOM has their own tie-ups with the hospitals. No ?
I see that there is not much matching in fields like Dermatology (and of course, like you mentioned any surgery/procedural specialties). So, given that my daughter will enter medical school with an open mind (as @thumper1 suggested), we really don’t want to shut-off chances into these specialties. So, the question is: If she pursues premed path (at UCR Honors), and jussst in case couldn’t get into any med school for MD, how hard is it, at that time to, get into LECOM ? (would we be making a mistake foregoing guaranteed EAP to LECOM now in that case) ?
If LECOM is being considered, do take a trip down to Erie and see it for yourself.
If you have time, plan your layover in Pittsburgh (spent a day or two) and stroll down U Pitt and UPMC complexes. Then by the time you get to Erie, you will see what you have chosen and possibly given up by picking CSUF+LECOM.
What you see at Pitt will also be comparable to Baylor (although med school/hosp is in Houston and not Waco) as well as GW/GT in DC. There are things in medicine that just can’t be described with words. You just gotta go see it.
Sometimes a “sure thing” is good to have, but there are lot more rewards if you are confident and are willing to challenge yourself.
Why is there a “lack of home hospital” - I thought LECOM has their own tie-ups with the hospitals. No ?
A home hospital is a hospital that is run and owned by the med school and where students from that particular medical school will do all or most of their clinical training. A home hospital is located on the same campus as the med school. (Or very close by if not on the same campus)
LECOM has partner hospitals. These are hospitals with which LECOM has a contract to allow their students to use that hospital for clinical rotations. LECOM pays a fee annually for these hospitals to accept their students. This means the association with these partner hospitals can change if a better offer comes along. (For example, Yale recently outbid UCSF for the rights to send its students to 3 hospitals in northern CA. UCSF used to send its student to those 3 hospitals for clinical rotations, but now Yale does. There is a national shortage of clinical rotations slots for medical students.)
Partner hospitals are often located at some distance from the medical school itself and usually require the student to move to where the hospital is located during the 3rd and 4th years of medical school. Sometimes a student will have to move several times as they are assigned to different partner hospitals for clinical rotations.
At partner hospitals, the medical school has less control over which attending physicians will supervise students and supervising physicians at non-academic (not owned by the med school) hospitals will typically have less experience and less training on how to teach students.
Partner hospitals may or may not offer residency training at their site. (Residency is required for all medical graduates. This is where they learn their specialty and learn the hands-on of being a doctor.)
I see that there is not much matching in fields like Dermatology (and of course, like you mentioned any surgery/procedural specialties). So, given that my daughter will enter medical school with an open mind (as @thumper1 suggested), we really don’t want to shut-off chances into these specialties. So, the question is: If she pursues premed path (at UCR Honors), and jussst in case couldn’t get into any med school for MD, how hard is it, at that time to, get into LECOM ? (would we be making a mistake foregoing guaranteed EAP to LECOM now in that case) ?
Gaining an admission to any medical school is tough. LECOM gets 16,000 application for 510- 550 seats. Its acceptance rate is around 10% (Not everyone who is accepted, decides to enroll.)
I can’t say if it’s mistake. This is decision your family will need to make based on your and your child’s risk tolerance and whole host of other variables–including family finances.
This is actually the best part. Unless things have significantly changed, most “away” rotations in small remote places (personally been to Williamsport and East Conemaugh on the LECOM list) will provide students free housing and food. Plan things right, many 3/4th year students don’t keep an apartment and are able to save that money.
Many non-affiliated hosp will host med students, just need to apply for a visiting spot. BUT a lot of MD University Hosp will not host DO students due to “difference in teaching philosophy and focus.” But personally I think that’s a more PC way of saying we got burned before and do not want to take that chance again. USC does host many students from PCOM (aka Western University of Health Sciences) who actually end up there for residency at LAC+USC.
Many non-affiliated hosp will host med students, just need to apply for a visiting spot
Now I’m confused. I known that all med students (both MD and DO) can apply for
'away" rotations thru VSAS.
But these are different in than basic clinical rotations in MS3.
Are you saying that DO students need to arrange their basic clinical rotations?
AAMC requires that all MD programs must offer clerkships in IM, FM, OB/GYN, general surgery, psychiatry, pediatrics if the school wants to be accredited. Additionally the state’s [Allopathic] Medical Board can add to (but not subtract from) the list of mandatory rotations for every med school in their jurisdiction. (Neurology, for example, is required in some states but not in others.) These clinical rotations must be completed at a site that hosts a residency program in the specialty in which the student is doing their clerkship. ( aka “Green Book” sites)
COCA doesn’t require any specific clerkships in their most recent set of accreditation standards, only that every DO program
A COM must be able to demonstrate executed affiliation agreements addressing the required clinical educational experiences for students.
I know my daughter has preceptored DO students at one of her hospitals (a low resource one with exactly zero residency programs) for the last 3 years.
I have also heard ( albeit second hand) that not all MS3 clerkships are done at hospitals. Some are done at private practice clinics and doctor’s offices and other sites that do not host residencies.
(BTW, I’ve been to Williamsport too many times. There just isn’t much there, or much to do there.)
There are rotations set up by the schools which you pick. The core ones (like IM, Surg, OB, Peds, FP, and Psych) must be completed in your own school. Then there are rotations students can find themselves and apply (as electives) for a spot to be hosted. I was referring to “electives.”
My use of “away” rotation probably did not help. My school used “away” to designate any rotations not done at our own University. Example, East Conemaugh was one of our core FP sites, but because it was not our own hosp, we called it “away.” Which BTW, people in Johnstown PA are some of the nicest people I have ever met.
Some hospitals will host everyone. Other places may be more selective in differentiating DO and MD students.
There are ambulatory rotations that can be used to satisfy outpatient requirements. Example is pediatrics: student needs some weeks of inpatient experience, but on the weeks of outpatient, that can be done basically anywhere that is vetted and credentialed. Psychiatry (for us) has no IP requirement, and some students get send out to offices for the entire rotation.
I agree the people are nice. My college roommate was from Shamokin Dam. I used to take the Greyhound every Friday between Scranton and Milton. And my mother lived in Lehighton for decades.
But still there’s not a whole lot to do.
And my Ds (who went to allopathic med school ) would find it very strange not to have IP component for psych. D2 spent a week sitting in on commitment hearings for psychiatric patients that’s held in a courtroom inside the locked in-patient psych ward. She found the process fascinating and gravely important.
That’s why I mentioned OP really needs to go visit Erie because that’s where they will be for the first 2 years before being able to go “away.”
We took S24 to Pittsburgh this past weekend to see Carnegie. He loved everything about the school except school is in Pittsburgh… And I can’t imagine Erie to be any more attractive to a California kid than Pittsburgh.
The OP’s daughter will attend CSUFullerton for the undergrad potion of the LECOM program. Once her daughter graduates and moves on to the professional portion of the program LECOM will assign her to one of its 4 campuses. That means she has a 50% chance of ending up somewhere other than PA.
And FWIW, my daughter who grew up in the sunny Southwest (where we had an average of 310 sunny days every year) went to undergrad in Rochester, NY–where they also measure snow by foot and the skies are so overcast and low she described it as “the place where you’re most likely to develop SAD”. (And the student Health Center used to loan out dozens of full spectrum light boxes to students every winter.)
Not always true. My kid did most rotations at easily commutable affiliated hospitals from her apartment. When she did those further away rotations, the commute had to be more than an hour each way for the school to provide housing. So sometimes housing was provided and sometimes…it was not.
Fortunately, we had a couple of friends who lived closer to those away rotation where housing wasn’t provided. Thank goodness for good friends!
That’s why we had a list and upper classmen to ask about these things.
Our school also made sure we know. My school did not send anyone far that didn’t have provided housing. Granted, one of the months, my room was a patient room in a closed section of the hospital wing and my partner was in a 1 BR house across the street.
But any elective we chose on our own outside the school, we were on our own. My 2 months at UCLA and one overseas, I had to arrange my own place to stay.
My school was in Philly. Anything within one hour was “commutable” and some people preferred being able to sleep in their own beds. At the same time, many smaller hospitals hosting students that were in the middle of the State will provide room and board. It was awesome.
I will say…my kid did four away rotations, audition ones, for residencies. Back when that was possible to do. She had to pay for this lodging and some of it was awful. She actually complained enough to one place that they refunded her money…she ended up staying with my sister about 45 minutes away.
This certainly is something to inquire about. Costs, and availability…
I will say, my kid loved her rotations at those community hospitals. They gave her a different taste of a career in medicine than the better resourced academic and academic affiliated places did.
But we are getting WAYYY off topic here! This kid hasn’t even chosen a college…yet.