<p>No, what I mean is I’m part of one of the Hispanic clubs/groups here on campus, and I’ve seen some of the memberscontributing ideas on facebook and some have also posted on the BR page. And (I was really surprised about this), they weren’t even lightly pro-AA…they were <em>violently</em> pro-AA.
From what I’ve seen, the basis of the pro-AA argument seems to call for a realization that, because of the history of racial tensions/relations in this country, minorities are almost always likely to end up on the bottom, socio-economically speaking. That’s the only logical way to look at it this stance, because there’s no way the issue is about race alone. There have to be underlying ones, and socio-economic status is the most prominent from what I’ve seen.</p>
<p>Hmmm. Okay.</p>
<p>So what do you think of post#10 on this thread?</p>
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</p>
<p>I think your suggestion of different cupcakes made of ingredients with varying values might be inherently more racist than the one undertaken by the BCR. Assuming the colors of the cupcakes are meant to be analogous to the different races, it can be easily misconstrued (unless that was your real intention) that different races have different intrinsic values and that certain races have greater value than others (as suggested by the “value” of the ingredient), but with AA, we have to treat them all equally hence the same buying price for different cupcakes. </p>
<p>I think it might be safe to say that most racial groups would resent the notion of certain racial groups being intrinsically more “valuable” than others.</p>
<p>Thank you for your donations that help keep Cal the best public school in the nation.</p>
<p>Why the “varying value” to begin with? The whole issue is where this varying value is coming from, and it’s certainly not coming only from the fact that a cupcake is, for example, red velvet or chocolate.</p>
<p>Lol, are we really discussing things in terms of cupcake type? It’s 1 AM and all this pastry talk is making me hungry 
But I’m not about to go down to Sproul tomorrow, haha</p>
<p>My place is doing a counter bake sale. We are giving away cookies because public education should be free for everyone.</p>
<p>Due to my socioeconomic status growing up, I never had the opportunity to attend or graduate high school. But I had faith and pride in my academic ability, I worked hard and I got to Cal. People who are willing to say that any factor extraneous to their academic merit should be considered in their college admission are undermining their own faith in pride in their abilities; they’re saying that they don’t think they deserve to earn their success and they’re selling themselves short.</p>
<p>Re: who is or is not in favor of affirmative action</p>
<p>Cynical self-interest would result in everyone except Asian people being in favor of affirmative action goals to match the ethnic composition of UC to that of the state of California. Yes, that includes white people, since they are severely underrepresented at UC, especially Berkeley, Los Angeles, Irvine, and Riverside.</p>
<p>Naturally, Asian people are most cynical about affirmative action, since Asian people tend to be more likely on the wrong end of racial discrimination in society, but also on the wrong end of affirmative action policies in most cases.</p>
<p>@ KeelyMK
you are the consummate American “I did it all by myself” I’m sure you did. Shoot, I reject your premise outright even in absence of AA. I just don’t think that grades and test scores are the end all be all of college admissions nor should they be. </p>
<p>I would take the kid of any race who got a 3.8 under extraneous circumstances over the 4.0 kid who stayed in the library everyday, got help from his parents both financially and academically and failed to develop any social skills.</p>
<p>And yes those kids do exist, try talking to some people here you’ll see who’s who</p>
<p>“I think it might be safe to say that most racial groups would resent the notion of certain racial groups being intrinsically more “valuable” than others.”</p>
<p>Not what I meant at all. I just meant universities want all kinds of cupcakes on their campus, and if there are not many chocolate ones to choose from, they go quckly. You may question why they want the chooclate cupcake they chose becuase it does not have as much sugar as the other cupcakes, (you may wonder why having chocolate cupcakes are important at all), but the school may not think sugar is the most important thing with regard to that particular cupcake. But in the lighht of day, I think better of continuing here, and will get to work.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Well, they are at San Jose State and any CSU or UC that admits students meeting the minimum systemwide grade and/or test score standards.</p>
<p>Schools selective enough that they get a flood of near-“maximum” grade and test score applicants are a different story, of course.</p>
<p>i’m so confused about this. this has to be a joke or a publicity stunt…or just crazy ppl. the more people make it a big deal, the more it’s gonna be. so why bother with them in the first place if u dont like it? im not for it but it’s obviously just stupid…</p>
<p>but honestly, when i heard about it, i thought whites would get the lowest price! lol</p>
<p>Is the bake sale still going on? Is it crazy at Sproul right now?</p>
<p>Apparently, the San Francisco Chronicle web site has an article about the event and counter-events. No mention of any Native American women cleaning out the inventory for free, though.</p>
<p>[Race-based</a> bake sale attracts attention at UC](<a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/27/BABR1L9PQL.DTL]Race-based”>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/09/27/BABR1L9PQL.DTL)</p>
<p>I find it funny that a school that prides itself on freedom of speech is having trouble ‘tolerating’ a minority group (i.e. Berkeley College Republicans) that holds a differing opinion. I also find it kind of pathetic that the ASUC even brought up revoking funding/sponsorship of the group, and Birgeneau’s email was the icing on the cake. At least today has been relatively drama-free so far.</p>
<p>As someone who is potentially adversely-affected by affirmative action I still think it’s a good thing. </p>
<p>Go down to Oakland and check out some of their high schools. A lot of the students there struggle. There are too many environmental factors that prevent them from performing as best as they could. Even if the students have the desire to perform as best as they could, they still can’t. And sure these students with average scores may get into top schools from these high schools, but that’s because the colleges realize the student’s potential. They want them to come to their school where they can realize their potential and succeed. These average scores are actually really good compared to the rest of the high school of which a majority doesn’t even care about college and just want to graduate. </p>
<p>And then these now these students who’ve maxed out their potential can go back to their hometowns and help them for the better. And also hopefully donate back to the school which helped them. Finally, the environmental factors will start to become better in these areas and affirmative action will no longer be required.</p>
<p>But I can still see why people are opposed to Affirmative Action.</p>
<p>Can someone here please concisely and precisely articulate the argument FOR SB 185? Can someone answer this plainly and simply-- no yelling, no name-calling, no “THAT’S RACIST, MUFUUKKAAA”, just an answer to this: If the bake sale’s discrimination by race bothers you, why don’t other policies that are bias by race bother you?!"</p>
<p>Best cake and cupcakes are from SUZYCAKES . I f you taste these cakes , you will not want anything else !</p>
<p>
.</p>
<p>I will be checking back on this thread…awaiting an answer to that question. Unlike some things at UCB, this is not rocket science. Either considering race in the allocation of an item (education or cupcakes) is a good thing, in which case let’s extend the concept to say…cars, homes, airline tickets etc… or, it is not a good idea. Sometimes it is just not possible to spin something both ways…although some make a hefty living trying!</p>
<p>[College</a> Republicans highlight discriminatory policy in SB 185 - The Daily Californian](<a href=“http://www.dailycal.org/2011/09/27/college-republicans-highlight-discriminatory-policy-in-sb-185/]College”>http://www.dailycal.org/2011/09/27/college-republicans-highlight-discriminatory-policy-in-sb-185/)</p>
<p>[SB</a> 185 Senate Bill - AMENDED](<a href=“http://ca.opengovernment.org/system/bill_documents/001/221/054/original/sb_185_bill_20110503_amended_sen_v97.html?]SB”>http://ca.opengovernment.org/system/bill_documents/001/221/054/original/sb_185_bill_20110503_amended_sen_v97.html?)</p>
<p>I believe this is the latest amended bill and a copy/paste of just a couple relevant paragraphs. If there is a more recent one please correct me.</p>
<p>“This bill would authorize the University of California and
require the California State University to
consider race, gender, ethnicity, and national origin, along with
other relevant factors, in undergraduate and graduate admissions, to
the maximum extent permitted by the 14th Amendment to the United
States Constitution, Section 31 of Article I of the California
Constitution, and relevant case law.
The bill would require the trustees, and request the regents,
to report , in writing ,
to the Legislature and the Governor by November 1, 2012, on the
implementation of the bill. The bill would require these reports to
include information relative to the number of students admitted,
disaggregated by race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, geographic
origin, and household income, and compared to the prior 2 years of
admissions.”</p>
<p>Mortimer, I respect your opinion and I’m glad you’ve contributed so much to this discussion. It sounds like we are just at a fundamental impass about what should be policy regarding college admissions. I don’t think any of these factors should be considered in admission just as I wouldn’t think it proper to put them on a resume and be judged likewise in employment. I believe that everyone who possesses the intelligence and potential to get into a good school has ample opportunity and there’s a certain level of self-respect and sense of accomplishment that gets tarnished when hard work is devalued by other factors that may or may not have had anything to do with one’s success. I come from an awful background, frankly, and all it’s done is motivated me to work harder to prove wrong all the people who said I couldn’t do it. I have similar faith in my peers and I just don’t think it’s right to propose legislation that explicitly encourages discrimination.</p>