Curious about Shadowing and Medically-related ECs...How many hours?....compared with PA School req't

Parent Cafe
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After speaking to some folks about their kids’ PA applications, I was surprised to see how many “patient clinical hours” were req’d for admission. Some PA schools expect 2000+ hours of real “hands on” patient clinical hours…or will specify something like 18+ months of full time hands on patient exposure (such as being an EMT, phlebotomist, paramedic, etc).

I’ve never seen specified req’ts like these for med schools. Do any have them?

Why do PA schools have these? Is it because their actual MS program is so short that this req’t is like “extra learning time”?

Along these lines…If you were advising a premed, how many shadowing hours and other medically related ECs would you recomment?

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At quinnipiac, some of,these hands on hours are part of their undergrad program. The PA program is direct admit from undergrad.

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For some schools it seems shadowing doesn’t count. We recently found out that the undergraduate courses required for a PA program are less then what is needed for med school. For example one semester of organic chemistry vs two for med school. Daughter is in undergrad trying to plan this out with her college advisor. I get the impression most students work a few years before applying to acquire the hours needed which varies depending on the PA program. Here is an excerpt from one program’s website:

The healthcare experience requirement can be met in several ways. The hours may come from one experience or a combination of experiences and may be voluntary or paid work. Examples of health care professions that typically require direct patient contact include nurse, EMT or paramedic, corpsman, patient care technician, nurse’s aide, surgical assistant, clinic/medical assistant respiratory technologist, radiology technologist, and mental health worker. Other professions and experiences, such as scribe, clinical research assistant, and medical technologist may also qualify if hands-on patient care is performed routinely.

Healthcare related professions that generally do not count toward this requirement because they do not involve hands-on patient contact include transporter, CPR or ACLS instructor, lifeguard, non-clinical research assistant, candy striper, unit clerk, and others. Although desirable for other reasons, PA shadowing and student/intern experience does not count toward the required 1,000 hours of direct patient care experience. Please contact us if you have any questions regarding your healthcare experience.

Some candidates are applying to PA as a career change. Typically they have been working in some type of direct-contact health care job and have many hours of experience. Other candidates are seeking PA as a first career in health care. They often seek health care experience specifically to meet the requirement and they do not have education in a prior health care profession. So, they are more likely to seek activities that require brief education such as Certified Nurse Assistant (CNA), Emergency Medical Technician (EMT), or a position with on the job training. These candidates typically have fewer hours. It is important to note the wide range of hours. It indicates that candidates from both groups are selected. Health care experience is not evaluated merely on the number of accumulated hours, but also the level of responsibility required.

Below is a partial, but representative, list of the types of activities that students have engaged in prior to entry into the PA program. These are only examples, many other types of positions may also qualify. If you have any questions regarding the acceptability of your healthcare experience, contact the PA program.

Volunteer activities include these settings.
•Rescue Squad
•Physician Office
•Emergency Room
•Nursing Home
•Free Clinic
•Mental Health Crisis Counselor

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I believe the new medical school requirement is 4 credits of O-chem instead of the 8 that used to be required.

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I get the impression most students work a few years before applying to acquire the hours needed which varies depending on the PA program.
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Right…son’s GF worked for 2 years before applying, but I didn’t realize that this was part of the req’t. I thought she was just doing that to “get other things together” (GRE, missing class, etc), because she wasn’t pre-PA as an undergrad. I didn’t realize that her “job choice” (hands on experience) was selected because it would fulfill this req’t.

I have also known a few paramedics who’ve become PAs. Obviously, they would have extreme hands on experiences.

@raclut which PA school is that?

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PA program admissions is very competitive and the admitted students class is small. I have seen classes between 30 to 90 students which is not much. But at the same time there seems to be an increase in number of PA schools to meet the need for health care professionals due to the growing elderly population and need for healthcare workers to meet demand.
PA candidates take the GRE vs med school applicants are preparing for the MCAT.

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It appears that some (maybe all) PA programs allow “grade replacement” but the original GPA is “also noted”.

Anyone else notice this? or know if grade replacement is commonly allowed?

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Many therapy professionals also make the career change to PA.

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Is grade replacement simply repeating the class?

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Grade Replacement usually means that the class is repeated, and then replaces the bad grade in GPA calculations.

MD med schools don’t allow that. DO med schools do allow that. It appears that some (many??) PA schools allow?

Back to the other part of my Q…

if you were advising a premed, how many shadowing hours and how many clinical hours would you recommend as a minimum?

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Physician here. Now medical students need EC’s as part of their application process it seems- nothing eons ago. I would not state any number of hours of shadowing. No specific number of hours, rather some experiences to see if anything appeals. Different specialties are vastly different. One can decide primary care is/isn’t on the radar in a short time, a specific number of hours is not needed. It can also be difficult to get various experiences due to patient privacy requirements. So much depends on the individual followed as well. You also only see the tip of the iceberg in decision making and the physician won’t have time to explain the thought processing that made a diagnosis and treatment the one to go for. There is always the thinking about what to do that you can’t appreciate- you sit there while the physician thinks, looks up something or is at home and you aren’t there. Watching someone work is so much more boring than actually doing it. Plus- entering medical students will change their minds once they have experiences. Preconceived notions of specialty can be discarded when one discovers others et al.

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@wis75 I agree that medically-related ECs are req’d, and my son had them for his successful admissions cycle in 2012…but he didn’t target a particular number of shadowing hours, or a number of clinical hours or a number of research hours.

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Two or three decades ago, a coworker of mine had to quit her job to volunteer for many hours before applying to a vet school. I think she volunteered for almost a year. (She might need to take some remedy classes also I guess. This is because she was a computer science major when she was a college student.)

So volunteering is also required for the career path other than PA also.

Do they require 3 or 4 credits of Biochemistry plus 4 hours of O-chem now? A few years ago, Biochem was highly recommended for a premed for some med school. (I know MCAT has been changed so the prereq course requirement could be changed also.)

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I believe biochemistry is highly recommended.