Curious: MS Talent search results & NMSF

<p>I've done a google search & nothing relevant seemed to come up so I figured I'd ask here. After finding out the list of students who made the cut locally for NMSF this year, I realized that they'd also all earned grand recognition in the Duke Talent Search back in 7th grade after taking the ACT. Makes sense; if you qualify for a middle school talent search, and you're a good enough tester to earn the top recognition, then you should still be a good tester in high school. </p>

<p>I'm wondering how many Johns Hopkins, Duke, etc. talent search participants, specifically those who earn recognition, end up being named NMSF? Can't believe someone hasn't written a white paper on this :) Any insights?</p>

<p>Rob, you crack me up. We should go in business together.</p>

<p>I saved the list of kids from ds2's year who made Duke TIP recognition, both levels. Today I was going to cross-reference to see whether kids who went to ds's HS (a magnet) vs other HS moved up in category, dropped in category, etc. I know it's not scientific, but a teacher at ds's school claims that our school "grows" NMSF. Judging by the number of kids who made grand recognition vs. NMSF, it could be true as the number as quadrupled. Is the cutoff for both things the top 1%? I realize this is not at all scientific, but I thought it would be a good first look.</p>

<p>We should talk in person!</p>

<p>^^^Ha! Hi I'm RobD and I have a problem...I'm reading articles from the Journal of Advanced Academics for fun. I'm almost at my five year mark for starting a new degree ;)</p>

<p>When I was on the Duke TIP site earlier today, I found this: "Duke TIP routinely evaluates ceremony score levels to make sure they are in line with the national percentile rankings (NPR) for juniors and seniors (traditional testers) taking the ACT and SAT. Duke TIP has set the state level criteria at approximately the 50 percent NPR and the grand level criteria at approximately the 90 percent NPR." </p>

<p>But that's at the 90 percent national percentile ranking for juniors & seniors. I have the analysis leaflets at home that breaks down the scores of the 7th & 8th graders and how they ranked against each other for back in 2004/05 & 2007/08. Guess I'll have to pull those out. I think you're right about it being about the top 5% of the grade level participants though.</p>

<p>You know what I need? Access to the historical grey literature like these Duke TIP & JHU yearly score breakdowns, as well as the historical counselor booklets that get mailed out with the NMSF letters. I'd have a heck of good source material for a dissertation...</p>

<p>So I was thinking about this on the way to the grocery store. Because NMSF is a state-based cutoff and Grand recognition is a national cutoff (isn't that correct?), are they apples and oranges? I'd have to know actual scores and percentages nationwide to make a good correlation, right?</p>

<p>Meanwhile, it also occurred to me that ds missed Grand recognition by 10 points and will miss the NMSF cutoff in our state by two points. Always a bridesmaid, never a bride ...</p>

<p>After looking at my list from 2007-08, many of the NMSF aren't on the Duke TIP Grand or other list. I guess lots of kids didn't participate. Oh well.</p>

<p>You might have to take it a step further. In our school system in order to take the SAT in 7th grade to qualify for the Duke TIP program, students had to score high on a standardized test (state or national) in 5th or 6th grade.
I do know 3 or 4 kids who were not in Duke TIP (for one reason or another) who became NMSF</p>

<p>D2 had a 3rd place finish in SATs for NUMATS in 8th grade, and is NMSF this year (cleared the cutoff in our state by 20 points). No surprise, I guess. I am not aware, though, whether any of her NMSF classmates also tested through NUMATS (we signed her up, the school had nothing to do with it). If they did take it, they did not finish high enough to get even state level honors. My guess is that they did not participate in any MS talent search.</p>

<p>In my school 2 people got grand recognition, 4 people got NMSF, and 1 person got both. The Duke thing takes the top 5% in each state I think, and then I don't know what percentage of that gets grand/state recognition.</p>

<p>Edit: Comparing this to the cutoffs, it looks like duke tip grand recognition is about top 0.1% (original 5%, and then the cutoff scores are about the top 2% of that)</p>

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<p>My CTY daughter is also a NMS.</p>

<p>My son made Duke TIP state recognition, along with some other kids in his middle school in TX, but nobody at the feeder line high school has made NMSF in the last four or five years. So, he is the first after a few thousand no hitters from his community. However, he does not attend the feeder line high school. We moved after he graduated from middle school and he is at a high school in another school district. I think it goes to show what two years of good schooling can do.</p>

<p>We are not in the Duke region, we are in Johns Hopkins. My S qualified for "grand national honors" (or whatever it was called) in 8th grade (did not take SAT/ACT in 7th). He was also NMSF. His PSAT scores were well over qualifying.</p>

<p>Interesting.. My son took the SAT or ACT in 8th grade and got Grand Award through the Johns Hopkins Talent Search or CTY or whatever it's called.<br>
Then last year (Junior) when he took the PSAT he got 227/240, which now puts him in the SemiFinalist (in process for Finalist) bucket.</p>

<p>His best friend who didn't do so well on PSAT (but got 35 on ACT, when my son only got 34) is amazed. We are all amazed that these two boys are not tracking neck-neck on all these tests & stuff.</p>

<p>My son also took the SAT in 8th grade through the CTY program and received an award at a ceremony for state high scorers (I can't remember what the award was called). He is also a NMSF.</p>

<p>The Hopkins program name is the Johns Hopkins Center for Talented Youth, hence CTY. It may have a talent search as part of the program.</p>