<p>-Northwestern
-Emory University
-Tufts University
-Johns Hopkins
-Vanderbilt
-NYU Stern
-Carnegie Mellon
-USC
-UCLA
-Berkeley</p>
<p>Would you please rank these schools in terms of how cutthroat or laidback they are from #1 (most cutthroat) to #10 (most laidback)?</p>
<p>Hmmm… I’ll give a go, though I’m not all that familiar with your entire list.</p>
<p>Berkeley
Carnegie Mellon
Tufts
John Hopkins
NYU Stern
Northwestern
Emory
Vanderbilt
USC
UCLA</p>
<p>tufts is cutthroat? o_O
i was sure it would be one of the more laidback schools on this list.</p>
<p>-Johns Hopkins
-Carnegie Mellon(STEM programs)
-Berkeley
-NYU Stern
-Northwestern
-UCLA
-Tufts University (Pre-med/science courses* are really cutthroat here…but everything else is much more laid back)
-Emory University
-Vanderbilt
-USC</p>
<p>Admittedly, I know nothing about Emory and very little about USC, but from what I’ve heard from classmates, friends, and colleagues who attended Vanderbilt and USC, it sounded very laid back.</p>
<ul>
<li>Bio/Eng major roommate and chem major cousin both reported 60% flunkout rates in the year-long intro bio/chem course for majors.</li>
</ul>
<p>Sorry, I know very little about Tufts. I based its ranking off its freshman admit profile. -.-</p>
<p>
Uh huh…Berkeley first, UCLA last…sounds about right. ;)</p>
<p>'SC is extremely competitive in the sciences – lotsa gunners – but more chill outside of the premed/engineering courses. Of course, the same is true at many colleges, including Cal.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Some individual majors are more likely to be cutthroat than entire schools. Anywhere you go, the pre-meds will be at the top of your cutthroat list.</p>
<p>
Let me explain.</p>
<p>The schools that are most stressful, such as CMU, JHU, and Berkeley have many top notch programs that are disproportionately revered relative to their other programs. Berkeley is especially notable in this regard for its engineering, business, and chemistry programs. Students who choose universities based on their prominence in individual subject rankings are more confident in their academic goals. These students will tend to be more competitive and cutthroat. You will even observe this phenomenon in lesser universities such as UCSD or GeorgiaTech.</p>
<p>In contrast, we have universities such as UCLA which do not strongly excel in any particular area. Students who pick universities such as these do not do so based on individual subject interest. Sometimes, these students did not research subject strength because they don’t know what they want to do. Other times, these students are less interested in studying their subject of interest than in nonacademic aspects such as social life.</p>
<p>The Berkeley-UCLA relation is particularly interesting. Berkeley, as the “flagship” UC is not really influenced by the UCLA demographic but UCLA (the frequent loser in cross-admit battles) is strongly affected by Berkeley’s. Because the schools both cater to roughly the same “stat” demographic, these cross-admit battles are rather frequent and leave a dent in UCLA.</p>
<p>Because Berkeley has all these extremely appealing specialty programs, there is a strong attraction of motivated, competitive students in its direction. Furthermore, the fact that Berkeley is stronger than UCLA in practically every academic area creates an even stronger enthusiasm drain from UCLA. </p>
<p>The end result is that UCLA is left with a bunch of disoriented, albeit still somewhat high academically performing students. The primary reasons students choose to go to UCLA are because 1) it’s near home, 2) students want to be social, or 3) students are alienated by the Berkeley’s cutthroat students (especially if they’re interested in the engineering, business, or chemistry programs). </p>
<p>In conclusion, UCLA is so laidback because Berkeley is so cutthroat. </p>
<p>(As for USC being more cutthroat than UCLA, I was influenced by the same reason and Tufts and its rising place as an academic superpower. Me and my peers have actually always considered USC the more serious school between the two but it just so happened stats/figures did not show it till recently. USC = med program, USC = business. -.-)</p>
<p>In other words, UCBChem, you have a tendency to want to “Have your cake and eat it too”. </p>
<p>You’re frequent flaunting Berkeley’s particular strong individual academic programs but make it appear really really stressful in the process. When you argue Berkeley isn’t stressful, you’re trying to play off Berkeley’s weaker side that few students are interested in. Let’s be realistic; without engineering, chem, and business, Berkeley is UCLA with less parties and bad weather. No one wants to go to that school! Which is why UCLA tends to have a greater percentage of majors in those areas.</p>
<p>I didn’t have a problem with your ranking, sentiment.</p>
<p>Tufts is cutthroat? In no way is that true. Even their pre-med. Just because a program is prestigious doesn’t mean it’s necessarily cut-throat. I always heard Tufts kids were competitive with themselves, not others.</p>
<p>Sentiment, they don’t call UCB University of Competitive Bastards for nothing… ;)</p>
<p>The juxtaposition of your last two paragraphs is seriously bipolar. </p>
<p>One moment, you’re defending UCLA, at another you’re denigrating the U. One moment up, the next in despair. Maybe you have multiple personalities, one, the pro-UCLA sentiment, the other taken over by bayboi. Your inconsistency of statements is absolutely mind boggling. You ought to have it checked out.</p>
<p>Regarding your next-to-last post:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Somewhat innocuous, I don’t agree, but I wouldn’t consider it worth commentary, other than to say that private schools generally aren’t into the business of flunking/weeding out students.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I’m sure that bothers you about UCLA, is that students choose the University for things ancillary to and including scholastics. With you, being a college student s/b about having one’s nose in a book at all waking hours. Yeah, you’re fun to be around. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You’re wrong. Cal will win the cross admit battle at some schools in some years, UCLA at some schools in some years. Both make a significant dent in each others’ yield rates. PVPHS tends to send more students to Cal; PVHS more to UCLA. UCLA tends to win the Catholic/parochial schools’ battle, though that is not definite either. Cal’s yield is a tad higher than UCLA’s, so Cal does win the cross-admit battle a bit more of the time.</p>
<p>Here’s a hs in SD, beachy…</p>
<p>With those who chose UCLA, with other acceptances following the first, which is the school of choice (Rank, UW GPA, SATs, Subject, College Acceptances):</p>
<p>2 4.87 730 750 700 2180 EB720,UH720 UCLA, UCSD, UC Berkeley</p>
<p>15 4.62 700 760 660 2120 LR740 UCLA, Notre Dame, UC Berkeley, USC</p>
<p>17 4.61 720 770 790 2280 MB800,SP770 UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC, UCSB</p>
<p>19 4.57 630 770 660 2060 FR800,UH750,MB720 UCLA, UC Berkeley, Notre Dame, Washington University</p>
<p>22 4.54 UH660,CH550 UCLA, UC Berkeley, USC, UCSB</p>
<p>24 4.50 640 670 640 1950 FR800,UH700 UCLA, UC Davis, UCSB</p>
<p>35 4.42 UH610,EB600,LT570 UCLA, Santa Clara University, UCSB, Occidental College</p>
<p>39 4.36 700 680 670 2050 MB650,UH610 UCLA, Cal Poly SLO, UC Davis, USC</p>
<p>107 3.93 580 650 670 1900 LR480,UH450 UCLA, UC Davis, UCSB, LMU</p>
<p>113 3.89 660 530 590 1780 UH630,LR610,SP440 UCLA, NYU, UCSB, Fordham University</p>
<p>114 3.89 MB730 UCLA, UC Berkeley, UCSB, UC Davis</p>
<p>140 3.73 680 670 590 1940 UH680,EB660,CH560 UCLA, Redlands, USD, University of Rochester </p>
<p>Here’s Cal’s matriculants:</p>
<p>20 4.54 800 770 770 2340 MB800,UH770 UC Berkeley, Cornell University, University of San Diego</p>
<p>8 4.69 700 760 800 2260 PH800,CH730,UH710 UC Berkeley, Cornell University, UCLA, UCSD</p>
<p>7 4.70 770 760 720 2250 CL780,CH760,UH730 UC Berkeley, Cornell University, Northwestern, UCLA</p>
<p>29 4.43 690 690 790 2170 MB770,UH700 UC Berkeley, Brandeis Uni., UCLA, Boston University</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Anyone who chooses Cal over UCLA because of the ranking of department without any other considerations is not very bright. If someone says to him or herself: “Self… I want to go to one of the two universities, and want to study history with thoughts of going law school. Uhhh, Cal has a higher ranked history dept, I’m choosing Cal.”</p>
<p>Anyone who chooses a university because of “higher” ranking department in a field he or she has no intentions of being employed is beyond stupid, and thank goodness this isn’t the basis of most students’ thoughts. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>How are UCLA”s “disoriented”? UCLA produces more attys, just as many MD’s as Cal. If you’re talking about keeping one’s options open, that’s another. It’s not about disorientation, it’s about finding one’s future field of employment. Students like these exist at both schools. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Even UCB disagrees. He said there’s a perception of Cal being the bogeyman, wrt cutthroat-edness, but (inferred) that UCLA is just as much so, especially being on the quarter system. </p>
<p><a href=“As%20for%20USC%20being%20more%20cutthroat%20than%20UCLA,%20I%20was%20influenced%20by%20the%20same%20reason%20and%20Tufts%20and%20its%20rising%20place%20as%20an%20academic%20superpower.%20Me%20and%20my%20peers%20have%20actually%20always%20considered%20USC%20the%20more%20serious%20school%20between%20the%20two%20but%20it%20just%20so%20happened%20stats/figures%20did%20not%20show%20it%20till%20recently.%20USC%20=%20med%20program,%20USC%20=%20business.%20-.-”>quote</a>
[/quote]
</p>
<p>You can’t be serious!!! A school that is private, needs tuition, is impossible to flunk out of, where students don’t pick up a book for weeks into the term? I don’t think there’s a Trojan around that would claim USC is more cutthroat. </p>
<p>This shows your absolute ignorance. You speak as though you know much, but you really know so little. Go out and experience live outside of your room. Get out and experience some life instead of reading about things in a book.</p>
<p>Drax, you’re such a UCLA booster. -.-</p>
<p>
USC isn’t impossible to flunk out of. Its average GPA is only incrementally higher than UCLA’s.</p>
<p>[UCLA[/url</a>]
[url=<a href=“http://gradeinflation.com/Southerncalifornia.html]Southern”>Southern California]Southern</a> California](<a href=“http://gradeinflation.com/Ucla.html]UCLA[/url”>UCLA)</p>
<p>Also, plenty of UCLA students don’t crack a book weeks into the term either! Maybe since you’re a “CollegeConfidential” student, you’re surrounded by more motivated, hardworking individuals.</p>
<p>Your other points against USC (it has high tuition and its a private school) have no relation with the rigor of its academic program. It merely shows your distaste for the school.</p>
<p>EDIT: As for my varying viewpoints regarding UCLA, the objective of the previous post was to explain why Berkeley is cutthroat and UCLA isn’t. It was not intended to necessarily either bolster or “denigrate” the university.</p>
<p>You are seriously losing it.</p>
<p>Go out and experience life instead of being cooped inside studying and surfing teh internet.</p>
<p>I’ve told you in the past, I graduated years ago. What, is your memory decaying also?</p>
<p>You just don’t know about the private/public school dynamic wrt flunking/weeding out. Private schools aren’t into the business of weeding out students, creating ungodly competition as in public schools.</p>
<p>Generally: Top-notch privates = tougher getting in, easy getting out; top-publics = easier getting in, tougher getting out.</p>
<p>UCLA’s on the quarter system; USC’s on the semester. Longer term for latter to slouch, not pick up a book.</p>
<p>
You’ve never told me that!</p>
<p>In that case, my viewpoint/experience is probably more valid as I am a current UCLA student and USC has changed a lot in the past 10 or 20 so years. I am also speaking in regards to future USC trends as well. (UCLA is fairly stable.)</p>
<p>In regards to “private” schools, USC is not a “private” school in the sense of top privates such as Harvard or Stanford. As most USC students would state, it is a different breed more similar to the public school system but with really high tuition. -.-</p>
<p>UCLA takes many more at-risk students than USC. And if you believe USC’s frosh class has 80%+ students who graduate top-10% of hs, you’re terribly naive also.</p>
<p>The average gpa of USC frosh is “3.7,” which can be anywhere from 3.66-3.74. I’m not buying this either. UCLA"s is 3.81 or thereabouts.</p>
<p>USC probably has higher SAT’s, but that’s because UCLA is public and has a duty to admit more urms with low scores from bad high schools. If you look at the individual hss, the admits/matriculants to UCLA have higher stats, save for these at-risk students.</p>
<p>USC makes up the difference when UCLA admits more from underperforming hss, many near the USC campus.</p>
<p>The competition at UCLA is much, much higher.</p>
<p>You just don’t know…</p>
<p>Maybe CAL–even though I graduated from there and didn’t experience cut-throatness; never felt that someone was angling to take something away from me or giving me misinformation so much as the inherent grading in the Physical Sciences (and certain lit courses, too) could be unforgiving.</p>
<p>I think of Hopkins as more academic than collegiate, so, maybe, it wins for the most cuththroat. You can also put Cornell, in that category, even if it’s not on your list.</p>
<p>Re: Tufts. A very bright and accomplished student body of students, passionate (or, even, zealous) about their plans (be it efforting to get into medical school or becoming a diplomat), does not make for “cuththroatness”; a lack of collaborative learning does. The feedback my daughter (and we) has gotten back, multiply, from current and historical Tufts students is that there is a pronounced esprit de corps and willingness to help each other. And, in fact, we have heard this from transfer students (from Georgetown, NYU, Brandeis, and Boston College) that the level of warmth and support at Tufts was notable, upon coming in from their respective schools.</p>
<p>USC? Cuththroat?? In my day, it was not. We know a significant number of kids, currently, who attend 'SC, most of whom are not academic powerhouses and a few who are (who couldn’t resist the generous merit scholarships they rec’d). I would think with such a diverse pool of talent, some of the cuthroatness might be diluted?</p>
<p>I suppose if you find community at a school, that might mitigate the effects of whatever cutthroat sensibility exists.</p>
<p>I know 7 or 8 students at Carnegie-Mellon, over recent years, who report being really happy with their choice and even have affection for Pittsburgh and who haven’t made mention of its being cutthroat.</p>
<p>@Drax
USC is similar to public universities in many aspects such as with the size of its undergraduate population. This size is attributable to much of the competition at public universities. </p>
<p>USC also does a great service to the city of Los Angeles by taking in a large chunk of community college transfer students every year despite having no obligation to do so. </p>
<p>In regards to URM, the demographic between UCLA and USC is actually strikingly similar. USC has a sizable number more Africans than UCLA and roughly the same percentage of Hispanics. The only part of the demographic that diverges is that USC has more Caucasians and UCLA has more Asians, hardly an URM.</p>
<p>[University</a> of Southern California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“University of Southern California - Wikipedia”>University of Southern California - Wikipedia)
[University</a> of California, Los Angeles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“University of California, Los Angeles - Wikipedia”>University of California, Los Angeles - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>If you know a bit of history, you’ll also be aware USC came out miraculously unscathed during the 1992 LA Riots This speaks for the outreach of USC on the community.</p>
<p>USC also offers a sizable amount of financial aid to students every year.</p>