<p>This just seems ridiculous that they cancel sections of “real” learning for trite classes kids are forced take to keep their aid and make no progress towards graduation. Seems they cut the wrong classes to me. And how do you offer a bio class with not enough room in the accompanying lab sections?</p>
<p>Is it that the student could not get into a lab period, or could not get into the lab that he wanted becasue it conflicts with another class? I tend to believe that the latter woudl be the case (but then there may not be a story).</p>
<p>This is one of the main reasons why students need to go into registration knowing what requirements, prerequistites are needed are to obtain their degree and a list options in the event of a closed course. "In the even, I cannot get into Oceanography, I can take __<strong><em>, which will fulfill my </em></strong> requirements.</p>
<p>By the same token, college is a time of learning, and students, should not simply be punching their cards in terms of knocking out courses. They should not be afriaid to take something new.</p>
<p>If I remember correctly, almost have of the credits one needs to complete a degree are in liberal arts. They also need courses in the arts (which the Coltrane course could probably fill that requirement. Personally, I would be very interested in this course).</p>
<p>I’m not certain exactly what Modadunn is objecting to. Is it
– California dealing with its huge deficit by imposing cuts on the CSUs?
– the tenure system in higher education that makes it impossible to cut senior faculty in response to changes in student demand?
– the rule that only full-time students can receive financial aid?
– the notion that a university should offer something other than pre-med courses?</p>
<p>It’s obvious that the situation described in the article is horrible. What’s not so obvious is what to do about it. No one ever said, “Let’s cut hard science classes so we can offer more jazz appreciation classes.”</p>
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<p>That one’s easy. Once you are offering a bio lecture class, you can add students up to the capacity of the largest available lecture hall at a trivial marginal cost per student. The marginal cost of additional lab sections, however, is enormous, and start with the fact that they are probably using every available minute of lab time already, so more sections would require more labs and equipment, as well as TAs.</p>
<p>From what I understand… They aren’t cutting these classes. The system is just overflowing, so students can’t get the classes they need in order to graduate.</p>
<p>According to the article, the student in question had over 30 classes he had hoped to register for, but watched as they were filled and closed. And when you have so much overcrowding at a school where students are, in essence, forced to waste their time by taking classes they have no interest in and carry no weight in moving them forward to graduation (which negates the Sybbie’s assertion that these classes add to the credits needed for graduation) and fees are up 32%, my point is mostly I get the utter frustration of students who feel beaten down by the process, let alone the sustained effort to do well academically. This, of course, doesn’t even mention the fact that those professors who are trying their best to accommodate students are being forced to dumb down the syllabus and curriculum to overload their classes. No one comes out ahead, least of all the students.</p>
<p>While on the surface, Coltrane might be a really interesting/insightful class, how many of these kinds of classes do you need on your transcript to meet the art or literature requirement of a liberal arts degree? And yet there is absolutely no ability to get into a class you’ve tried to register for for over a year? Is there any question why it would take a kid 6 years to graduate? And then the catch-22. Usually aid only lasts for four. </p>
<p>Didn’t realize I needed a specific objection to kids finding themselves taking out loans and using govt grant money to essentially not get the education they thought they were going to enjoy when they enrolled. It’s unfortunate for sure. And this was my only point.</p>
<p>"Because of state budget cuts to higher education, San Francisco State is now offering 3,173 course sections, 12 percent fewer than two years ago. From the university administration’s point of view, that is not as bad as it might have been: over $1.5 million in federal stimulus money prevented more draconian cuts.</p>
<p>Among other things, oversubscribed classrooms can force a student like Mr. Macias, who must be enrolled full time to keep financial aid, to take courses that might have little to do with his progress toward graduation."</p>
<p>If I was Mr. Macias, I would be fighting mad.</p>
<p>Back in the day when I went to UW Seattle, I had the luxury in grad school to actually be able to petition to take certain classes in the law school and the business school which I felt, after discussion with my advisor, would supplement the classes I was taking in the public affairs school. It didn’t take a huge effort and I really enjoyed those classes.</p>
<p>I managed to complete my undergrad in the UW in three years, by taking extra credits each quarter and taking classes over the summer. No way could I do something like that if I’d had to face what these students in CA are looking at, and there are signs it will get worse. (Since my H is on faculty at USC, he knows plenty of colleagues at the UC schools.) Therefore, we are crossing fingers that our S will get accepted at some of the privates he’s applied to, so he doesn’t have to face the UC system. And he wants to study physics, which means that limited supply of lab space.</p>
<p>Alas someone has to pay the piper for the profligate spending by our governments.</p>
<p>Californis just happens to be having their day of reckoning. With the huge debt being piled up in DC, eventually the entire country (or our children) will have theirs</p>
<p>Maybe you do get what you pay for. I noticed that even with the increase in instate tuition California schools cost less than many other states’ public U’s. I wonder what the current financial health of the UC system would be if they had kept pace with other states. The low cost bubble has burst, shattering student dreams in the middle of their college careers. Would it have been better to force financial alternatives for these students before they got into the system? Hindsight is always 20/20.</p>
<p>Here’s a real life question. If accepted, should my son attend grad school at a UC? What are the chances of more cuts taking away TA postions and forcing grad departments to do more downsizing?</p>
<p>I think this depends largely on the school and the student. I’m having a lot of trouble getting classes I need, so I e-mailed my Dean and Department Chair late last night. They are now trying to get me into at least one more class. </p>
<p>Always talk to the higher ups, but make sure you play nice. My Dean in particular has been a huge help to me today; she’s forwarded my e-mail to the correct department heads for the GE classes I would like, and is trying to get me into an upper-division course in my major with permission from the department chair (which she’s still trying to obtain).</p>
<p>Point being that it’s possible to get the classes if you’re not willing to take “no” for an answer.</p>
<p>UCs are probably a whole other ballgame; I wouldn’t go there right now even if I got a full ride.</p>
<p>A problem with not taking no for an answer is that it only works for the lucky few who pursue the issue. Exceptions can be made for one- but what do you do with the other 50 people sitting on the floor? Too many trying to get the attention of the higher ups becomes a demonstration and a police matter. It sounds like severe overcrowding issues, not just everyone wanting a popular professor instead of reasonable substitutions.</p>
<p>The tuition (fees) at UCs may still be less that other public Us, but when you factor in the living costs, it’s bound to be more to attend a UC. If you think about where the UC campuses are located in the main (there are some exceptions, like UC Merced) housing is not cheap in the area and commuting from a distance a real pain.</p>
<p>As for grad students … good question, especially for top notch programs at top UCs. We have a number of friends and acquaintances who are profs in various fields at various campuses. They believe next year will be worse, as many part-time staff will be let go in the second year of this debacle, as they’ve had adequate notice and federal stimulus money starts to dry up.</p>
<p>Grad students shouldn’t be too big of a deal, as they’re actually a large cash cow for schools. I know UCLA uses its engineering departments as a way to bring in lots of money as they admit many people to their MS program. Even funded PhD students are being paid for at sticker price by their professor, so the school’s making money off of them too. And since grad students take up significantly fewer resources than undergrads do (at least the places I’ve been they seem to be much less involved in campus life and catered to by the school), they might actually turn a profit unlike undergrads.</p>