Cutting for Stone - October CC Book Club Selection

CBBBlinker · October 1, 2010, 11:30am

Mary13, I’m with you – felt like I was reading it for days, or more like weeks! I finally finished it yesterday. I liked it a lot – so don’t interpret my taking so long to mean I found it boring/unenjoyable. In the beginning it was a little hard to figure out where the story was going, but then it took off. There were a number of plot twists and coincidences, but it is a novel, after all. :)

I like Verghese’s writing style and descriptions. I feel as if I’ve been to Ethiopia. I can also relate to the whole twin thing going on in the book – I have identical twin brothers who are 2 years older than me.

SouthJerseyChessMom · October 1, 2010, 12:02pm

Mary13 wrote “It’s October 1st and I feel like I’ve just emerged from another world, having read nothing but Cutting for Stone for days”

On page 416 …reading, reading, reading!

1012mom · October 1, 2010, 1:07pm

I gave a copy to a transplant surgeon trained in NYC. I am curious as to his reaction - but he has not finished it yet. I guess too many transplants!

I loved this book. Gripping story without being sappy or overwrought. Important themes about the nature of family, the committment of parenthood, the ethics of modern medicine.

ignatius · October 1, 2010, 2:48pm

I’m on page 227. To be honest, I’m not at the point where I find the story “gripping” - though I hope that’s around the next bend. I read through part I and then picked up another book and read it. Read through part 2 and then picked up another book and read it. Now on part 3; I guess you could say I’m meandering through the narrative. Unusual for me. I think perhaps the fact that my attention hasn’t been captured combined with the length of the book has allowed me to put it down, then pick it back up, then put it down … I’ll finish the book, but may just lurk through the discussion.

And I do have to say that all the medical details are definitely NOT helping.

BUandBC82 · October 1, 2010, 3:57pm

Those of you who are still reading, probably shouldn’t read my post.

As I posted earlier, I really enjoyed this book. It is definitely a story that includes all the literary themes Mary mentioned. There were parts of the story that reached a little too far out of a true realm of reality. I was disturbed when Marion got hepatitis. It seemed like a bit too much drama, but not enough to make me not love this book. I would put this book among my all time favorites.

I thought the story Gosh told when he got out of prison (pgs.350-351) about the Baghdad merchant who couldn’t get rid of his slippers (when he tried, something bad would happen) was significant to the story. One of the old men in the prison said the man (who couldn’t get rid of the slippers) “might as well build a special room for his slippers. Why try to lose them? He’ll never escape.” The men in the prison decided the “the old man was right. The slippers in the story mean that everything you see and do and touch, every seed you sow, or don’t sow, becomes part of your destiny.”

Gosh described what he thought his “slippers” were and told Marion that “The key to your happiness is to own your own slippers, own who you are, own how you look, own your family, own the talents you have, and own the ones you don’t. If you keep saying your slippers aren’t yours, then you’ll die searching, you’ll die bitter, always feeling you were promised more. Not only our actions, but also our omissions, become our destiny.”

What were Marion’s slippers? After Gosh’s story, Marion thought the army man he had killed were his slippers. Later, after almost having an encounter with Tsige in Boston it’s apparent that Genet is a large part of his slippers. After leaving Tsige (pg. 589) Marion says “This is my life…I have excised the cancer from my past, cut it out; I have crossed the high plains, descended into the desert, traversed oceans, and planted my feet in new soil; I have been the apprentice, paid my dues, and have just become master of my ship. But when I look down, why do I see the ancient, tarred, mud-stained slippers that I buried at the start of the journey still stuck to my feet?”

I think Thomas Stone was also part of Marion’s slippers and I feel Marion finally got rid of his slippers when he called Thomas at the end of the story.

Mary13 · October 1, 2010, 9:15pm

(Spoiler Alert)

Great analysis, BUand BC82. I agree that the slipper story is allegorical. I think that Marion was deceiving himself when he identified the murdered soldier as his “slipper.” It was certainly a terrible incident, but I don’t think it shaped his destiny in the same way as his obsession with Genet and, especially, with Thomas Stone. Marion was deeply troubled by the death of the soldier, but he seemed to come to terms with it as an adult. However, he was haunted his entire life by Thomas Stone—even in the end, as he dials Stone’s number “with shaky hands.” Only at that point does Marion finally let go of the last vestige of bitterness, acknowledging that Stone was “someone who would bring all the skill and experience he carried in his nine fingers to the rescue of a fellow human being, and who would pass on that legacy to another generation of interns and residents—it was what he was born to do; he knew nothing else.”

And speaking of those “nine fingers,” how do you interpret the fact that Stone had amputated his own finger—and that it kept reappearing in the novel (first in Sister Mary Joseph Praise’s room and then in Stone’s apartment)? To me, it suggests that Thomas Stone is incomplete, that he has removed a small but crucial part of himself—in the same way that he seems to be lacking (metaphorically) a part of his heart. When he sees the finger in Sister Mary Joseph Praise’s room, “He felt a longing, an emptiness, and an itch in his right palm which only that missing finger could relieve.” Very similar to how he felt when Sister Mary Joseph wasn’t by his side.

bookworm · October 1, 2010, 11:15pm

I’m reading now, up to page 370. I can’t say I love the book. It is well written, moves slowly. Too many ah/ha moments. My favorite so far was the story about the slippers. I also like the marriage between Ghosh and Hema. I wish I learned more of the culture.

BUandBC82 · October 2, 2010, 8:11am

Mary, I hadn’t really thought too much about Stone’s nine fingers. When Stone first discovered the finger in Sister Mary’s room, my first reaction was “ick”. I agree that the missing finger reflects Stone’s incompleteness. The fact that it was in Sister Mary’s room and that Stone later took it with him, makes me think that it was also a way that the two of them could be together (without being together). Sister Mary obviously loved him very much and by keeping his finger in her room, she was able to keep part of him with her at all times. Did Stone take it back because it was his? or did he take it back because it meant so much to Sister Mary?

CBBBlinker · October 2, 2010, 8:18am

Although I enjoyed the book (as mentioned above), I agree it was a little slow moving. In retrospect, that’s probably why it took me a while to finish. If it had been “gripping,” I would have read bigger chunks in one sitting.

Re: all the medical terms and details – thank goodness for my Kindle, which made looking up definitions easy!

For the longest time I thought the story line was going to be that Thomas Stone was NOT the twins’ father. There were so many references to everyone “assuming he was the father, but how could that be?” In the end, though, the story doesn’t have that sort of intrigue.

And, what do people think about Shiva? Anyone else think of Asperger’s? (Sorry, I know I’m introducing new topics/jumping all over the place.)

Lady_Lorna · October 2, 2010, 8:28am

Before addressing the book’s purely literary merit, I wanted to mention how struck I was by my own ignorance of Ethiopia and Haile Selassie. I think of myself as an educated person. Did I know where Ethiopia was? Sure. Had I heard of Haile Selassie? Sure again. Did I really know anything about them, about that time and place? Sure not. Perhaps it is a testament to the book and to the writer’s ability that my curiosity was so piqued that I went right to the internet to research the geographical, social, and political context in which the story took place. In a sense, I was then reading the book on two levels–one historical and specific to the story, the other universal and more wide-ranging, an exploration of the life choices that confront all human kind.

bookworm · October 2, 2010, 8:37am

Shiva and Aspergers–definitely some traits. Shiva loved prime numbers, would seek escape in his thoughts, could stop talking for years, could turn in a test without his name (picture of Veronica with attention to breasts), etc. I can’t understand his fascination with women and childbirth; I would think he’d run from that area of life and medicine.

BUandBC82 · October 2, 2010, 8:49am

I think figuring out Shiva and Shiva’s role is very interesting to ponder. Stone damaged him when he was trying to abort the boys to save Sister Mary. Shiva’s condition could be brain damage (despite the fact that he’s brilliant), it definitely could be Asperger’s, or it could just be the hereditary baggage that comes with being the son of Thomas Stone.

bookworm · October 2, 2010, 9:09am

Stone seems more an Aspie than Shiva. Stone was insensitive to feelings of those around him, Shiva was blunt and spoke whatever was on his mind, and he certainly had no problem being around women

Mary13 · October 2, 2010, 11:21am

Shiva was a fascinating character. I thought of Asperger’s, too. I pulled this from the web (although I know there are many CC parents who would be a better source, so please comment if this is inaccurate):

Shiva seemed to operate on a continuously even keel, no evidence that he was ever deeply depressed (even when Marion left) and no moments of being funny or light-hearted (“My brother wasn’t given to laughing and most jokes were wasted on him…”) But even if he was unreadable (at least to me), he was certainly compassionate: from the dying puppies, to the many women he healed, to his sacrifice for Marion—he responded to the helpless in need.

Although both Shiva and Thomas Stone are both socially “impaired,” it affects them differently. Ghosh says about Thomas Stone, “He knew surgery well, but he had no understanding of life.” Marion asks, “You mean he was like Shiva?” Ghosh responds:

Shiva doesn’t deny himself his needs…and that leads to the incident with Genet that alienates him from Marion. Shiva is so close to his twin, yet he seemingly didn’t realize that Marion would be devastated by what he did.

SouthJerseyChessMom · October 2, 2010, 11:58am

^^^ racing to finish this book. Like it lots.
I am enjoying everyone’s discussion, Lady Lorna, I spent some time viewing photos of Ethiopia, and reading about the history. I need to learn more.

But, needed to jump in on the Aspie conversation. Not long ago this morning, I read on page 573 Shiva’s response to Marion’s invitation to NYC, which was really attempt to mend their fractured relationship.
Marion " Why don’t you come visit here “…
Shiva " Will I be able to see your operating theaters?”

That was my confirmation that Shiva had Asbergers Syndrome, something I suspected earlier, like others, and Mary13, you do a good job of summarizing all those ASpie characteristics.

Mary13, you mentioned the significance of “nine fingers”.

Interesting that there is a Chapter entitled “Five Fingers” …Chapter 48, which is really about the great medical success each brother achieved.

Shiva becomes the world’s expert on fistula procedures. On the Time magazine cover and posters distributed all of Africa and Asia, Shiva’s hand !

“…it showed a hand, the fingers splayed out.Peering at the photograph, I could see that it was Shiva’s hand. In the palm was a seated woman…”

Then the chapter discusses Marion’s path to become board certified.
The last sentence of “Five Fingers” - is the line
"My name is Stone, " I said, putting my seat belt on, although I wasn’t worried; nothing bad could happen to me on this day. “I’m a surgeon”.

A surgeons hands are his greatest tools, and perhaps Thomas’s missing finger, something he couldn’t hide, was as stated above by others, showing the world he was damaged.

Mary13 · October 2, 2010, 2:01pm

Yes! More thoughts running through my head:

Shiva never seems to second-guess himself—never beats himself up over the things in life that he should or should not have done. Marion and Thomas Stone, however, both do—they struggle with the decisions they’ve made, and how they have hurt (or been hurt by) others. (Thomas reflects more on how he’s hurt others; Marion tends to focus more on how has been hurt by others). During ShivaMarion’s surgery, Thomas “looked up at the ceiling and prayed not to a God or to spiders, but to Sister Mary Joseph Praise, asking to be redeemed for a lifetime of mistakes.” Shiva, on the other hand, seems to be a boy/man who doesn’t know the meaning of regret.

Also, in addition to the Asperger’s possibility, Shiva seems to have some characteristics of Savant Syndrome–his photographic memory, his brilliance at a particular skill. Per Wikipedia, “something that almost all savants have in common is a prodigious memory of a special type” and some people may “develop savant skills is because it is a response to their impaired social abilities, i.e., due to not being able to understand social interactions innately they have to pay close attention to how people act and build up a reservoir of learned interactions that they can understand and make use of. The way they function therefore predisposes them to a tendency towards analysis and storing information, hence the ‘enhanced’ memory.”

Mary13 · October 2, 2010, 2:04pm

Hands in general seem to be a recurring motif—how they look (Mary’s are “slender and soft;” Matron’s are “doughy white”)—as well as what they do. Thomas Stone thinks of Mary: “He recalled her hands on him, washing his body, dressing him, even holding his head when he retched.” And Mary thinks of him: “She felt a bruising coming on where his hands had clutched her, but there was a quality to this discomfort that she did not mind.” That’s early on in the story and seems to foretell their future relationship: Sister Mary Joseph Praise is a balm to Stone, whereas he unwittingly hurts her and she forgives him without hesitation.

SouthJerseyChessMom · October 2, 2010, 7:04pm

^“That’s early on in the story and seems to foretell their future relationship: Sister Mary Joseph Praise is a balm to Stone, whereas he unwittingly hurts her and she forgives him without hesitation”

Mary13, could you or others help me understand the ending of this book, especially the significance of Sister Mary’s letter?

Does this letter confirm that Sister Mary did, in fact, not blame Thomas for what happened, and wanted to be with him? So she did “love” him, and that the shame he carried with him, was that perhaps he “raped” her ?

Also, didn’t Thomas ever feel “shame” that he didn’t attempt a C section? Was that ever an issue with Thomas?

Needing a bit of help with this.

Mary13 · October 2, 2010, 8:13pm

Well, first of all I wouldn’t call it “rape”—am I being too easy on Thomas Stone? He and Sister Mary Joseph had loved each other deeply for years, but had never expressed it. I think Mary was a very willing participant. That said, although he may not have taken advantage of her, it’s definitely not gentlemanly to make love to your soul mate for the first time while dead drunk, and then not remember that it ever happened!

Thomas repressed the memory of the twins’ conception–or at least the specifics of it–until it came flooding back to him later in the book. I think the shame that he felt through the years was that 1) he knew deep down that the twins were his children, but couldn’t quite piece together the details; and 2) he—the great surgeon—could not save Mary when he had the chance. His medical training (for a C-section or anything else) left him when he needed it most.

Mary’s letter to Thomas both explains what happened, and then forgives him (“Do not blame yourself.”) Mary leaves Thomas with a choice, to let her run away or to ask her to stay with him: “If you come to me when you get this letter, I will know that you wish me to be with you.”

And as Marion realizes at the end, Thomas makes his choice—the right choice—without ever even knowing it. He strides into Mary’s room, kisses her, weeps over her, lifts her up in his arms and carries her away. The romantic in me can only hope that although Mary was near death, she was somehow aware that Thomas had come for her.

SouthJerseyChessMom · October 2, 2010, 8:47pm

^ I do understand that Thomas’s actions conveyed to Sister Mary that he chose her, and she died knowing that she was loved.
This is lovely resolution of that question.

But, didn’t Thomas live with the regret that he didn’t attempt to perform a C section in time, and didn’t that haunt him?
Remember how Hema had accused him of being unprofessional, and blamed him for her death?

By the way, I really liked the way the author dealt with the Thomas’s realization (in NJ) that he had sex with Sister Mary. Like Alice through the Looking Glass, a semi drugged, and vague, fuzzy stream of consciousness. Dream like, nightmarish at times, and effective in conveying the pain as the memories surfaced. Well done, I thought.

Cutting for Stone - October CC Book Club Selection

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