D dings car again... I need a reality check

Parent Cafe
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<p>dietz199, sounds like you’re dealing with what you need to do. But one last thing - in addition to knowing her eyes are 20/20, have you checked for depth perception? You focus on a single object about 15-20 feet away. Then you hold a card over one eye, then quickly change the card to the other eye. If either eye moves, it means they’re not working together. </p>

<p>It’s nothing to do with actual 20/20 or anything, but rather that the two eyes aren’t working together perfectly. Depth perception comes from having two eyes looking together at the same object. Your daughter probably doesn’t have this problem, but it wouldn’t hurt to check.</p>

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<p>I feel your pain, dietz199. In his junior year of HS, S2 was rear-ended twice (not his fault) and got a speeding ticket (clearly his fault) within 5 weeks. I was ready to pull my hair out. The reality check was the speeding ticket. We had to go to court because he was under 18. He accepted full responsibility for his actions & pleaded guilty. Because he didn’t try to make excuses, judge slapped his hand & allowed him to take a remedial driving course. She also made him publicly apologize to his parents in court. S2 paid court costs & cost of driving course but was not fined (~$150-200; fines doubled in a construction zone, which is a large section of the DC Beltway right now). </p>

<p>I was so grateful for the speeding ticket because it underscored what I repeatedly had been telling S2: that he drove too fast. He wouldn’t listen to me, but he HAD to listen to the police officer & the judge. It was a good learning experience.</p>

<p>PS. Second rear-end accident, the other driver got out & said, “Dude, I’m taking these new prescription painkillers & must have blacked out.” This led to a conversation with S2 about alcohol not being the only thing which causes a DUI.</p>

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<p>CardinalFang, lest I sound cavalier about inexperienced driver-cyclist accidents, I am highly sympathetic. Years ago I WAS the cyclist in a car-bike accident. HS kid on the way to school pulled out from a stop sign while I was riding past on my bike. I had the right of way. I wound up being his hood ornament. </p>

<p>Fortunately I was not seriously injured (other than a very colorful bruise) & my bike was able to be repaired. But I had to call his parents because he had not told them about the accident. Now that I am a parent of teen drivers, I can appreciate how upsetting such a call must have been.</p>

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<p>12rmh18, I know how you feel ! Between our two kids, both in their twenties, they’ve had only one speeding ticket, but nothing else. When our daughter got her speeding ticket, I felt like sending a thank you note to the policeman who gave it to her. Best lesson they could ever have.</p>

<p>She had to pay the fine, but no way could she have afforded the increase in our insurance premium, so we had her work it off to us. My H enjoyed sitting on the patio, watching someone else mow the lawn for the next two summers. . . . . .</p>

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<p>MY kids range from 20-25, none have had an accident at all, and 1 just got the first ticket in a speed trap. My oh my, she was furious with herself for being a sucker.</p>

<p>I recall when my oldest began driving, friend after friend totalled cars, not bad accidents, but old junker cars that were totalled by nearly any need for repair. And tickets, too. I was hearing stories left and right about friends getting tickets, good kids, smart kids, not cocky show off kids. I was quite surprised at the level of ticket & damage I heard going on around them.</p>

<p>My DH is rather intense about being a good driver and taking good care of the car. I think my kids had extra training, they all learned on a stick, and knew that if they blew it being careless they would not be driving our cars. They were just raised with that intensity about driving and cars.</p>

<p>I would love to see them take courses like DMD mentioned. Who did you use, DMD?</p>

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<p>My son is a great driver. No accidents in 2 and 1/2 years, but it could happen. </p>

<p>He would love to take a class, but we can’t find one. Any suggestions in N. Cal? I checked Skip Barber and Sears Point.</p>

<p>He DID get a speeding ticket a few weeks ago; and has a court date next month. Anybody know how that works in California?</p>

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<p>I have no sympathy for cyclists who run red lights, though I hope he wasn’t hurt. </p>

<p>It’s funny what people notice. Drivers notice cyclists running stop signs, but somehow give scofflaw drivers a pass. For example, it’s rare to see a driver obeying the speed limit on the freeways around here. And probably half the drivers on the arterials speed. Yet do we hear other drivers chirping about that? Nope. Never. To listen to a motorist, you’d think drivers obeyed all the laws all the time.</p>

<p>And while I’m on the subject, drivers, please learn to make right turns. If there is a bike lane to your right, just as if there is any other traffic lane to your right, the correct way to turn right is merge into the bike lane first, then turn. You wouldn’t turn right from a middle lane, would you? Then why do you do it when a bike lane is there? I don’t see even one out of ten drivers making a right turn across a bike lane legally. Nobody gets it right.</p>

<p>And here’s my other pet peeve (other than idiot cyclists running red lights and stop signs): drivers passing cyclists. It’s not legal to pass a cyclist on a blind curve by crossing a double yellow line. It’s not. Why do drivers do it?</p>

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Half? I bet more like 95%.</p>

<p>That’s because speed limits are rarely if ever set based on what is safe, they are politically and/or financially motivated. Near my house is a street that has one speed limit in one direction and a different limit in the other direction. Guess where the speed trap is?</p>

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Bike lanes in my area, when you can find them, are typically about 2 feet wide. They are not really lanes, if you pull into one you are still blocking the driving lane. And if you did pull into the bike lane to make a turn, and you happen to get stopped at a red light, you will have cyclists screaming at you because you are blocking them from riding right up to the light. It’s a no-win situation.</p>

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<p>dented the bumper on our fence, dented the bumper by hitting another car parked in our driveway, backed into the bumper of another parked car and then today…clipped a vehicle while pulling our of her parking space.</p>

<p>1) I would have her “depth perception” checked.</p>

<p>2) tell her to move VERY SLOWLY while parking or backing away from other cars…stopping frequently to check and recheck all sides. These kinds of “dings” happen when a person “plows in” or quickly reverse out of parking situations.</p>

<p>And, yes, she should pay for ALL damages AND pay for any upcharges in insurance…that will teach her to be more careful</p>

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<p>We have back up sensors/cameras on all our cars. They virtually eliminate the problem of parking mishaps. The aftermarket versions work pretty well too - a thought for your daughter’s car - it would probably pay for itself quickly - all those little dings add up!</p>

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<p>notrich, I hope that “bike lanes” near you are not two feet wide. A two foot wide space is inadequate even for a shoulder; I would certainly not ride in a “bike lane” so narrow my bike wouldn’t even fit in it. In such cases, I take the lane. I doubt that any labelled bike lane in your area is two feet wide. AASHTO guidelines call for four feet if there is no curb, five feet if there is a curb. But whatever the size of the bike lane, you need to merge into it before making a right turn. </p>

<p>If you merge into the bike lane before making a right turn, as you should and as you are legally required to do, cyclists can still pass you. On your left, as they should. That’s the point. Cyclists shouldn’t be on the right of right-turning cars! If a motorist turns right and hits a straight-through cyclist, the motorist is turning right from the wrong place, or the cyclist foolishly squeezed into a tiny hole where he had no business going.</p>

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<p>dietz:</p>

<p>you are an enabler. There are ZERO excuses for running red lights. Zero excuses for rolling through stop signs. All this crap about spatial-visualization…do you excuse her poor (math) grades as well?</p>

<p>I told my kids what my mom told me years ago: “One ticket or one accident, and you will not drive my car. Period.” </p>

<p>It’s amazing what a little tough love parenting can do. But then that requires being a responsible parent, and not a friend. If and when she gets involved in something more serious, it will be YOUR fault. You are allowing her to endanger your community.</p>

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<p>Well, two feet is an exaggeration I’m sure.</p>

<p>And many roads have little to no shoulder at all, even when they have speed limits of 40 or 50 mph (and I mean literally none - there are many many places where the line on the side of the road comes within an inch or two of the curb. There is just no space a bike lane could be put in.</p>

<p>And in those places where they squeeze a bike lane in, they seem extremely narrow. But bike lanes in general are few and far between around here.</p>

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I have yet to see a cyclist who will wait in the line of traffic at a red light, and not ride down the shoulder to get to the front.</p>

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<p>Of course, and that’s perfectly legal, but if you are turning right, you should position yourself so that cyclists can’t ride to your right. Because they shouldn’t be there. It’s dangerous to be to the right of right-turning cars. They will hit you.</p>

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<p>It does not seem appropriate that ALL the blame should be laid on the driver when the cyclists try to squeeze where they shouldn’t when the driver is making a right turn. I do wish cyclists would obey the rules of the road uniformly. Around here, there is such variability as to what any of them will do, most of us give them VERY wide berth, since they may suddenly veer into our lane from the shoulder where they were riding just a moment before. It is not uncommon to see two (sometimes more) riding abreast instead of single file and unfortunately, collisions between cars & bikes are too common, with often tragic results.</p>

<p>Personally, I do NOT driving in the vicinity of any bike. We know an anesthesiologist who was biking & now has his brains scrambled (literally) after being struck at night by a truck–no helmet and now no ability to practice. :(</p>

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<p>So cyclists shouldn’t be on the right on right-turning cars, except when it is convenient. And cars should block the shoulder, even when 20 cars back from the intersection, cyclists won’t mind. They won’t just go around them, or squeeze through the foot of space I’ve left, and ride up to the front anyway.</p>

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Or maybe cyclists should assume that every car at an intersection could be turning right, and not pass cars by driving down the shoulder. Who is going to lose in a collision? Is it worth your life to get to where you’re going 15 seconds earlier?</p>

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<p>The correct action for the right turning car driver is to merge into the bike lane (yielding to bicyclists already there) before making the right turn as close as practicable to the curb or edge of the roadway (i.e. preventing a bicyclist from passing on the right).</p>

<p>The correct action for a straight through bicyclist approaching the right turning car from behind is to pass on the left if it is safe to do so, or wait behind if it is not safe to pass on the left.</p>

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<p>I don’t mind cyclists cruising up to the light or even that they zoom through to save their energy…it’s exhausting to have to get back up to speed all the time and I can appreciate that. I take care to look around and hope they are doing the same. </p>

<p>What I object to is the ones who ride on the wrong side of the road. Going against traffic may sound like the safer thing to do; pedestrians get this wrong as well. But a wrong-way bicyclist coming up fast to a right-turning car at an intersection is just begging for a nice wreath. To the car, danger would come from the left. We don’t expect (and often don’t look for) anyone in our lane on the right. </p>

<p>Oh, and not wearing all black when riding at twilight would be a big help.</p>

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<p>I’ll try to explain it again:</p>

<p>Between intersections, lane position is determined by speed. The fastest traffic is in the leftmost lane, the slowest in the rightmost. A bike lane would normally contain the slowest traffic, so it would be on the right.</p>

<p>At intersections, lane position is determined by direction. Left turning traffic must be to the left, right turning traffic to the right. Straight through traffic needs to be to the right of any left turning traffic, and to the left of any right turning traffic. Unless a right turn lane is present, it is legal to be in the rightmost lane and go straight-- this is true for both drivers and cyclists.</p>

<p>So cyclists can perfectly legally ride in the rightmost lane, or in the shoulder or bike lane if one exists, up to the intersection. It is the right-turning driver’s job to position his car correctly.</p>

<p>It’s the same as if there were two lanes, both with motorized traffic, and no bikes. The right turning car would have to get in the right lane. Other traffic, traffic going straight through, might also be in the rightmost lane, and the right-turner would have to merge right into the lane. If instead the right turner turned from the left lane, he would be at fault. If he turned right across the path of a straight-through car and hit it, he would be at fault. If he safely merged right, then turned, and hit some idiot trying to squeeze through on the sidewalk to go straight, the idiot would be at fault. Just the same for bikes: the driver merges into the rightmost lane, the bike lane, then turns right.</p>

<p>Merge into the rightmost lane before making a right turn. This is always the rule. It’s the rule where there are bike lanes, and it’s the rule where there are no bike lanes. It’s the rule for roads with bikes, and equally the rule for roads with no bikes and more than one lane of motorized traffic.</p>

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<p>A bike lane is not a shoulder, it is a lane for travel. I have to be alert for incompetent drivers, true, but that doesn’t excuse motorist incompetence. If you hit a cyclist because you incompetently and illegally failed to merge right before turning right, it’ll be bad for the cyclist, but the accompanying lawsuit won’t be any picnic for you either. Better to drive safely. </p>

<p>When I am cycling and approach an intersection to go straight, I move left slightly, just to give a body language signal that I’m not turning, to cue any drivers behind me not to right hook me by passing me on the left, then turning right.</p>

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What is the correct action when there is no bike lane, just a shoulder anywhere from 0 to 2’ wide?</p>

<p>We don’t have bike lanes. The <em>vast</em> majority of roads have one lane in each direction (even the numbered state roads) and have shoulders varying from nothing to a few feet. So saying “get into the right-most lane to turn right” is a no-op - there is only one lane. Most cyclists ride in the shoulder where there is one, to get some space from the cars.</p>