<p>I figured this would be an excellent place to seek objective advice on my second daughter’s dilemmas though it has no direct relation to college. Please excuse me if this is in the wrong forum.</p>
<p>D2 has a long history of depression and anxiety. She sees a therapist once a week and takes antidepressants, but is still extremely unhappy; she rarely smiles, never hangs out or calls friends, is losing weight, sleeps ~14 hours a day. I have no idea what to do besides provide her a shoulder to cry on and take her to a professional. My older daughter has never had these problems - she is social, healthy self-esteem, overall a very easy kid to have.</p>
<p>D2 asked me to hang out with her yesterday for the first time in months; it is a very rare occasion for her to seek out interaction. She wound up telling me of some issues:
She wants a nose job. She has said this since she was 10. Middle school teasing was fairly merciless, but while her nose is not cookie-cutter, it is not ugly. It is, however, a huge contributor to her anxiety. I always figured the rhinoplasty phase would pass, but D2 is not one for whims - this is serious.
She wants to change her name. Apparently, she hates it. Again, she is entirely serious and has put thought into this.
She has contemplated suicide in the last two weeks, but is unable to do it, she says. I am distraught. I called her counselor asap, who told me to tell her how much she is needed and that we are going to be taking her off the antidepressants. I have been hovering since.
She feels like a failure, especially in her sister’s shadow. I’ve talked to the therapist about this before. She thinks D1 is prettier, smarter, kinder, funnier, etc. In addition to this, D2 also feels very listless; she is not “passionate” or even interested in anything, and hates this about herself. Again, she compares herself to D1 who has very clear-cut interests. Therapist says this is common for very intelligent people (multiple IQ tests have indicated she is a genius) and she will find her niche eventually, but I feel as if I should be proactive about this in some way.</p>
<p>I am at a loss, completely overwhelmed, desperate to improve her situation, and ready to do so through any means necessary. Would you consider letting this child have plastic surgery? Changing her name? Force her to be social or join a club? I have no idea what to do.</p>
<p>Please only reply if you can be constructive. I realize this post touches on what may be a few controversial issues.</p>
<p>Anytime anyone tells someone they are contemplating suicide, walk them into the ER – do not wait another day. Antidepressants in this age group increase feelings of suicide.</p>
<p>She probably needs immediate medical attention.</p>
<p>She may need to be an inpatient – please don’t hesitate to consider this option.</p>
<p>Does your daughter like and feel comfortable with her therapist? I’m asking because a lot of those issues sound like things that they should be working out together, but if your daughter isn’t 100% comfortable opening up to the therapist, there won’t be progress on the issues. Good luck with everything.</p>
<p>How is her relationship with her older sister? I would call D1 and tell her everything that is going on. You’d be suprised how much hanging out with someone else can change a person.</p>
<p>Is your daughter in the care of a child and adolescent psychiatrist? I am worried that “we are taking her off her antidepressants”. That MAY help in the long run, but it also might make things much worse. Your daughter sounds quite depressed, beyond anything a nose job could fix. I second the advice to think about inpatient treatment. And the advice to make sure this is the right therapist for her.</p>
<p>overachieversmom- “Antidepressants in this age group increase feelings of suicide.” This may be true in some cases, but is far from universal.</p>
<p>Please consult a psychiatrist to taper your daughter safely off of the antidepressant if necessary. </p>
<p>It sounds like you are doing all the “right things” but your daughter still needs help. Consider seeing a different therapist or different psychiatrist, maybe a medication change. Let her know that rhinoplasty is an option. </p>
<p>It’s common for a second sibling to feel in the first sibling’s shadow – but not everyone becomes depressed and suicidal. Keep working on finding the right help fo rher.</p>
<p>I’m sorry for this overwhelming, terrifying experience.</p>
<p>How old is she? How old is her sister?</p>
<p>A newly revealed intention to commit suicide requires a complete, up-to-date assessment by a child psychiatrist. This person will be able to determine whether in-patient is needed. Have her see one tomorrow, at the ER if necessary.</p>
<p>Meanwhile, call 911 at once, at any time, if you sense an immediate suicidal intention or plan. </p>
<p>Do you have your own counselor? I would recommend that. For someone nonjudgmental to talk to at any time, 24/7, you can call 1-800-273-TALK (National Suicide Prevention hotline) or a listening line in your area. Don’t hesitate to call.</p>
<p>Regarding your questions: I would not force her to be social.</p>
<p>Surgery or name change are not good ideas as a seeming solution to depression. What will happen after the surgery and the name change, when she finds out that she is still herself? Besides, both of these suggestions will require time. What is required now is fast action to see that she is evaluated and cared for as needed.</p>
<p>Please consider getting her seen asap and possibly admitted. If she has admitted feeling suicidal twice, it’s probably more than that.</p>
<p>My sister hated her first name. My parents allowed her to switch to her middle name and she was happier after that. My cousin inherited my grandma’s honker. She got a nose job when she was 16. It changed her life.</p>
<p>I think that allowing your D to go by a different first name is fine. She can tell her friends and you can ask her teachers to refer to her by that name. She doesn’t have to change her name legally at this point to use a different first name. Anybody can be called whatever they want as long as there is no intent to defraud anyone or hide from the law. </p>
<p>However, the bottom line is that she may be obsessing on these small things to hide a deeper pain… Do you think she is cutting or self-harming?</p>
<p>It is heart breaking when our kids are unhappy. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>bergens- this could have been me- writing except my D2 does not talk to me except to say everything is " fine" or I have been like this for " months" or send money. ( except for the facial surgery)</p>
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<p>I agree with this.
IMO- she needs a total workup including nutritionally from a good dietician/naturopath- ONLY ONCE SHE IS STABLE.
Yes it is true that anti-depressants can increase thoughts of suicide but to take someone off of them cold turkey would be a no-no.
She needs round the clock care IMO.</p>
<p>One other thing to think about with the ER recommendations – I do understand the seriousness of the situation. Do you think that her suicidality and increased depression is new though? I’ve had a friend sent to the ER for similar issues, and she was hospitalized for a week. It didn’t really do anything except disrupt her current routine (including therapy and psychiatric medications – she was more inclined to talk to her current therapist than whatever random person came to see her at the hospital that day). A week isn’t really long enough for your feelings to change – if you’re depressed and occasionally suicidal, a week of inpatient care probably is not going to change that. </p>
<p>I realize that everybody’s situation is different, but I do think that this is something to consider before going to the hospital. I’m not saying don’t go, but think about what it would really mean. If it’s round the clock care so she doesn’t commit suicide, how long can she stay? If she’s been suicidal for months, a week in the hospital probably won’t turn that around. Her therapist might have advice there. I think most good therapists will also allow you to call them anytime – maybe your daughter can reach out to her therapist and see if it’s okay to call them occasionally outside of treatment when she’s feeling really low.</p>
<p>Also seconding – absolutely don’t quit meds cold turkey. It’s a pretty terrible idea, physically and mentally.</p>
<p>You might want to look up body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), which is a very specific disorder regarding subjective feelings of ugliness, often focused on one aspect of appearance, such as the nose, or thighs, or hair. Often BDD sufferers have plastic surgery, only to then have a problem with the results, or move on to another part of the body. It is most similar to OCD, and involves a lot of repetitive thoughts, secret rituals, and extreme depressions.</p>
<p>SSRI’s and targeted cognitive behavioral therapy can help.</p>
<p>I’m not saying that your daughter has this, but you might want to check it out online.</p>
<p>Antidepressants do not cause suicidal thoughts in all teens. If you do take her off, I just want to add to the warning about quick withdrawal. It can take weeks or months to get off them slowly enough to avoid withdrawal. You can also add a small amount of Prozac to help with the process, or use a liquid form of the med she is on and use tinier and tinier amounts at the end of the withdrawal.</p>
<p>As for the desire for suicide, I would not go to the ER, but take her to her psychiatrist or therapist asap for evaluation. </p>
<p>If she is a genius, what is her experience of school like? Perhaps there are larger changes that could happen, to make a difference in her life. Or perhaps the depression is entirely chemical. Giftedness often seems to be accompanied by such problems.</p>
<p>I agree with eireann. How about a good eval? I also would keep the plastic surgery an option. It is important that your daughter feel she can make changes that will help her. She is not, for example talking about tatooing her whole body! Re the name change, it is her last name? First name? What about going with that too? As difficult as it is to hear her angst, it is good that she turns to you. I agree with another poster, how about getting a therapist for yourself for support?</p>
<p>When people are unhappy, they sometimes fixate on one relatively trivial thing that, if only it were not the way it is, would make their lives totally different. This is because they feel powerless to change what is REALLY wrong, or it is too painful for them to face the most worrisome reality. Her nose and name could be those things she is fixating on because the causes of her depression are elusive or too tough to deal with.</p>
<p>However, since she has asked since she was ten to have plastic surgery, I would allow it–if only so she can see for herself that it changes nothing. As for the name, if it’s a first name, there’s no reason she can’t just ask people to call her something different, including you. People do this all they time when they have names they don’t like.</p>
<p>Living with “perfect” older siblings is not easy. Spending more time with her older sister might, however, give D2 a chance to see that her sister has problems too and is not perfect. For example, sometimes the perfect ones are under a lot of pressure to hold up their reputation, or they fear failure, etc.</p>
<p>Lastly, I’m not liking the impression I’m getting of her therapist. I agree with many of the other suggestions, including finding out if D feels she is being helped by this person.</p>
<p>I’m sorry your daughter is having some tough times. You have a lot of courage to so openly share such sensative an dpossibly painful things here or anywhere. I find people are kind of guarded about things like this but I applaud you because I have the core belief that honesty starts the development/healing process. </p>
<p>The other responses so far are very good things for you to think about. </p>
<p>I didn’t see too many people respond directly to the questions in your last paragraph or two so I will start there:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Yes, without a doubt, I would let her have the nose job and I would pay for it. I would sit down with her the next chance I had and tell her consider it done. If you need help I will get it. Plain and simple. No regrets. Worth every stinking penny. If cosmetic surgury is safe and available and it makes people feel better about themselves in this cruel dog eat dog world do it. I have absolutely no hesitation giving that advice. That alone could solve 95% of the issues here. </p></li>
<li><p>Drugs and doctors. I have no idea what’s right or needed so listen to the other parents. </p></li>
<li><p>I would also without equivocation let her change her name. This is an easy oen too. If it makes her feel better get 100% behind her and do it. What’s in a name anyway? People live by their screen names now as it is. It simply doesn’t matter. Let her do it and help her do it. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>I’m not sure what else to say about therapists and the sort. I am sure they are helpful in 85% of the patients they see. But there are times mom or dad can make the difference. Let her know flat out you see her potential and you will help her with self-esteem issues. She is loved and as someone else said “needed.” </p>
<p>Good luck. I will keep reading this thread.</p>
<p>Your daughter sounds a lot like me not too long ago. For the last couple of years in high school and my first two years in college, I was extremely depressed, battled with social anxiety and was occasionally suicidal. I had no friends, no interests, and no motivation to do anything at all. I kept thinking, “If only my classmates were more interested in their academics than their social life, I might actually fit in.” In the fall of my junior year, I took 2 of my classes off campus, at a more selective university. Two months later I ran into a professor who had not seen me since the summer. His first words were, “You look happy!” and then he proceeded to give me a hug. (No, he does not usually hug students.) That’s how big of a difference those 6 weekly hours off campus made for me.</p>
<p>In the grand scheme of things the academic inclination of my classmates was a trivial issue, really. But that change of scenery removed the one thing that consciously bothered me the most. I was a bit happier immediately and consequently more able to focus on deeper issues.</p>
<p>It might be clear to you that a nose job is not the answer to most of your daughter’s problems. But if she’s this unhappy about it, it might be worth considering anyway, if only to give her a chance to focus her energy on other things.</p>
<p>How long has she been seeing the therapist? The weight loss and excessive sleep sound as if her depression isn’t really being helped much by the current therapist/medication and it’s possible that a change in one or both might be in order.</p>
<p>Is it possible she’s being bullied? Names and physical features are often the focus of teasing. I sounds to me like both are symptoms, rather than root causes, and I would be hesitant to let her change either until she is in a better frame of mind.</p>
<p>Take care of yourself, too. Parenting can get brutal at times.</p>
<p>I am so sorry this is happening to your daughter and to you. I will keep you both in my prayers. Your daughter is very lucky to have a parent who is there for her.</p>
<p>It sounds like your daughter is not making any positive progress with once a week sessions with her current therapist. My suggestion would be to schedule more frequent sessions, and possibly with someone else, especially if your daughter had not told this current therapist that she has considered suicide.</p>
<p>I agree with the advice given so far in this thread, except for taking her off antidepressants immediately—horrible idea. Seeing a different therapist and trying different antidepressants are good ideas, though, as neither of those are one-size-fits-all.</p>
<p>The situation sounds very similar to what I’ve experienced with my sister. My sister has pretty severe bipolar disorder and anxiety, as well as a history of sickness, whereas I’ve been physically and socially healthy. We were both in AGP (Academically Gifted Program) due to our high IQs and talents, but her psychological problems started when she was about 12 or 13. For a long time she resented me for being able to do well in most subjects while she struggled to have the motivation to get out of bed every morning due to her severe depression.</p>
<p>Someone — don’t feel like looking back to see who — suggested having D1 talk to her; I second this. My sister became much more motivated and mentally healthy when our relationship improved and she stopped comparing herself to me in a negative manner. I know that not everyone is meant to be on the same path, and that her struggles have made her an incredibly strong person; also, much like your daughter, my sister is incredibly intelligent. Maybe hearing these things from her sibling will help.</p>
<p>I understand what you’re going through, it’s really tough but hopefully there is light at the end of the tunnel.
Has your D been properly evaluated by her therapist? Has your D had any physical tests or written tests to distinguish between possible conditions such as bi-polar disorder, depression, other conditions that have depression components? </p>
<p>Did her anti-depressant medications ever help improve her outlook? There are a lot of options on the medication front. They work differently and even meds within the same class will affect people differently. (NEVER cold turkey on them!) My daughter responded extremely well to meds…it was like having my kid back.</p>
<p>Does she talk to her therapist? Has her condition improved with her sessions? If not, get someone else! Ask your school who they recommend. Schools usually know who’s the best with kids. My D recently moved and has visited at least three therapists before finding someone with whom she felt comfortable. She had a wonderful first therapist and so had a good comparable.</p>
<p>Nose job…I don’t know what is involved but I’ll echo that someone who has wanted it since 10 years old should be listened to and supported. At least go with her to be evaluated for it, support her.</p>
<p>Name change…agree with first name change, you don’t have to legally change it. she can legally change it when she’s an adult if she wishes.
Good luck! You have company and a lot of well-wishers out here!</p>