DAAP - out of state tuition with no scholarships

<p>I have been accepted into the school of Architecture at Cincinnati but was not invited to Cincinnatus. I am out of state so tuition is pretty substantial. I called the financial aid office and received the same answer the financial aid website seemed to give: there isn't much for out of state students when you dont get into cincinnatus. Going there is not impossible but basically it has caused me to question whether the school is really worth paying so much when I could go to a cheaper but still very good school such as Penn State.</p>

<p>Basically I am wondering what the situation for financial aid will be ( I dont expect to get a whole lot / anything from FAFSA). </p>

<p>Once Ive been in DAAP for a while are there more scholarship opportunities? Does Co-oping help pay for tuition or do you need all that money for living expenses, etc? Do a lot of out of state students try to pull of the ohio residency thing after a year or whatever the requirement? Do people feel that the Cincinnati experience is really worth such a hefty price (for out of state) when other colleges are cheaper and ranked pretty high??</p>

<p>any insight is greatly appreciated.</p>

<p>DAAP is a very high-demand school. Thus, like all programs that are in big demand, they don't normally give a lot of aid.</p>

<p>However, if you got into DAAP then you should have been invited for the Cincinnatus. Something is amiss. Everyone I know that got into DAAP, got some money.</p>

<p>You have other choices. One big choice is to take a deferment for one year and get a job in Ohio before you start school. This way you can establish Ohio residency.</p>

<p>Also, if you are needy, you can get need-based aid,which Cincinnati does give a lot of .</p>

<p>Finally, starting with your third year, you will be on coop, most of which are paid coops. This will substantially reduce your costs since you don't pay tuition while on coop, and you will be earning money.</p>

<p>For most majors, however, DAAP is a much better choice than similar majors at Penn State with maybe an exception for Architecture.</p>

<p>I sent an email inquiring about the cincinnatus thing, and was told my ACT score was a little too low (28) and since architecture is more demanding I probably wasn't in the group invited. I called the office as well and the woman I talked to said that DAAP withholds a lot of aid and only gives it to students who have been there a while as opposed to incoming freshman, since there are so little incoming students versus current ones.</p>

<p>What is the cincinnati need-based aid based from? the FAFSA form?</p>

<p>"For most majors, however, DAAP is a much better choice than similar majors at Penn State with maybe an exception for Architecture."</p>

<p>is the architecture program at UC not as good versus other DAAP programs?</p>

<p>vonnrw, our DS is an out-of-stater in the UC Architecture program. Although paying oos tuition is expensive, our family has no regrets about our son enrolling at UC rather than other less costly Architecture programs (UC was his 1st choice). He's learned so much in his courses and during co-op. In fact, his DAAP education has impressed his co-op coworkers (some with Architecture grad degrees from the Ivies), whom he often helped with their computer renderings. </p>

<p>During co-op, he gets paid and only pays UC one fee for co-op (no tuition!). If you opt to do some of your co-ops near your hometown, perhaps you can live with your family and save room & board costs. UC offers co-op opportunities all over the U.S. and some abroad. You can also find architecture firms that you'd like to co-op for and if these firms are amenable to do what it takes to be a co-op firm (which hasn't been a problem for DS & his classmates), they can become a UC co-op firm. Definitely submit a FAFSA form to see if you're eligible for need-based aid.</p>

<p>Responding to your last comment, DAAP Architecture is a very strong program, as are the other DAAP programs. Visit U.S</a>. News Rankings for the University of Cincinnati to see Business Week and Design Intelligence (D.I.) rankings: School of Design was 1 of 4 to receive an International Design Excellence Award (considered the "gold standard") and was listed among the best 60 design programs in the world; ranked 1st or 2nd for the past decade in Interior Design; in Industrial Design, ranked 4th for undergrad & 5th for grad studies; and ranked 6th for the architeture grad program. Since D.I. only ranks accredited U.S. Bachelor of Architecture (B.Arch.) and Master of Architecture (M.Arch.) programs, UC's undergrad architecture program, whose students now earn Bachelor in Architecture, not B.Arch degrees, isn't under consideration.</p>

<p>Best of luck!</p>

<p>vonnrw asks,is the architecture program at UC not as good versus other DAAP programs?"</p>

<p>Response: I think you misunderstood what I meant. The UC architecture program is very solid and provides terrific coop experience, which might indeed be better than Penn State. However, I do know architects from Penn State who rave about their program. In fact, I just had dinner with one last night who majored in architectural engineering. Thus, I assume that Penn State has a good program too, although all this knowledge is hearsay. If money is a crucial factor, I don't think that someone could go wrong attending Penn State instead of UC ESPECIALLY if they qualified for in-state tuition.</p>

<p>Vonnrw also notes, "I sent an email inquiring about the cincinnatus thing, and was told my ACT score was a little too low (28) "</p>

<p>Response: This was changed over the last few years. UC used to offer Cincinnatus scholarships based on how your student compared to the rest of the other students at the university and NOT just to other DAAP students. I guess all schools are experiencing increased standards for admission not to mention reduced aid due to cutbacks in state funding and losses on endowments.</p>

<p>As for need-based aid, you must submit the FASFA form. That is the form that UC uses for all need-based aid.</p>

<p>I just noticed something interesting about the press release that UC made concerning the Cincinnatus Scholarship program. To wit:</p>

<p>"UC Student Financial Aid determined eligibility of high-school seniors who applied to UC last fall, based on a minimum 3.2 high-school GPA – with further eligibility determined by the academic program they selected at UC – and awarded $2,000 in renewable scholarships. "</p>

<p>First, although not quoted here, they have about 750 invitees participating in the scholarship. When my daughter participated four years ago, she had about 1000 kids involved. Thus, there are substantially less scholarships available.</p>

<p>Second, based on the above quote, UC is basing the scholarship , in part, based on the program that the student has selected. Thus, my suspicion that high demand programs might have either fewer Cincinnatus Scholarships or those kids might need to have much higher grades/scores over that of less prestigious programs seems to be confirmed. I guess UC is trying to be more selective as to who gets the scholarships.</p>

<p>I am out of state for Penn State and Cincinnati so they are both in a similar situation, except that Penn state is still about 15,000 less, not including any scholarships or financial aid that I have yet to receive from anywhere.</p>

<p>I was definitely met with a very "there are no good options for you without cincinnatus" sort of attitude when I talked to financial aid which has sort of reversed my initial excitement over UC. I feel like it may be overrated when there is no financial aid involved and it made me wonder if it is still worth it with such unhelpful financial aid. It is still a top choice of course, and obviously the program is top notch.</p>

<p>It is too bad that scholarship money is so limited these days with the public schools.</p>

<p>thanks Mom of 2 and taxguy for all the information, it is super helpful!!</p>

<p>Vonnrw, although I think that the UC program is better than that of Penn State for several reasons, from what I can tell, Penn State's program is quite good. Frankly, for 15K a year more, I am not sure UC is worth that much of a difference.</p>

<p>Also, Penn State did have an architectural engineering major that was a combination of architecture and engineering. I think they had two concentrations: structural and environmental, at least this is what my contact told me over dinner last night.</p>

<p>I am only suggesting this because architecture is down quite a bit now because of the real estate doldrums. Very little commercial building is going on compared to several years ago. You might want to consider an alternative. Just something to think about....</p>

<p>Ummmh....... vonnrw - I'm not sure where you are getting your costs from, but you have indicated that you are out-of-state for both Penn State and Cincinnati. One reason my D2 is looking more closely at Penn State (also for architecture) is because it is much cheaper than Cincinnati, but we are in-state for PSU. (Her other reason is, as she puts it, she has a lot of options at Penn State if she chooses to change majors later on.)</p>

<p>According to the web sites for both schools. the OOS annual tuition for PSU is about $25K and the OOS annual tuition for Cincinnati (3 quarters) is about $24K. Add in room and board and various fees, and my calculations say that the OOS annual billable costs for both schools is about $35K. For us, with in-state tuition for PSU, we are looking at a difference of about $12K a year.</p>

<p>it seems that I was looking at the wrong figures for Penn State Tuition, it will in fact work out to be around $40,000 for both Cincinnati and Penn State. This certainly helps to even out the playing field as far as that goes. Penn State is a five year program versus six for cincy, but with co-op factored in I would imagine they turn out to be the same...</p>

<p>Make sure Cincinnati is 6 years. I thought it was a five year program.</p>

<p>To go on through to a M.Arch degree at Cincinnati will require six years. Four years for the Bachelor of Science in Architecture, (the BS Arch, from any school is not an accredited, profesional degree) followed by two years of graduate school to get the professional, NAAB-accredited degree of Master of Architecture. The Penn State program is a five year program and results in the B.Arch degree, which is also an NAAB-accredited professional degree. Either the B.Arch or the M.Arch enables you to sit for the various architectural certification exams. Two different routes to accomplish the same basic goal.</p>

<p>Vonnrw, I'm sorry that the cost for Penn State was higher than you thought. I wanted to make sure that you were comparing apples with apples for your decision.</p>

<p>I don't think you can go wrong with either Penn State or Cincinnati for a degree in architecture. I do agree with Taxguy, however, in saying that the DAAP program at Cincinnati probably presents the much broader and stronger blend of "design" majors, which would bring with it a lot more exposure to extremely talented design students.</p>

<p>We don't know yet which way we will finally decide yet - Penn State or Cincinnati. (D2 is still hoping to hear from Virginia Tech)</p>

<p>Best of luck with your decision. (Make sure that you visit both schools and meet with professors at each school)</p>

<p>Wow, UC must have really come up in the world in recent years. The average person attending the Cincinnatus Scholarship program had an average ACT of 31.83! This might be why you didn't get a scholarship.</p>

<p>I can say that four years ago, when my daughter attended the Cincinnatus competion, the average ACT and SATs weren't anywhere near that high.</p>

<p>See: Campus</a> Competitions at UC Next Step in More Than $18 Million in Scholarships</p>

<p>taxguy- they also invited only 1/4th of the people this year (compared to previous years).... which could be part of the reason for the higher ACT scores (I'm sure UC's rep has gotten better though... it seems like it does every year).</p>

<p>Wonderful, they would have to do that this year. I'm sure that my D2 was not invited to the competition since her SAT scores were a bit lower. I think that she would have done a good job in presenting herself in a face to face situation.</p>

<p>I also find it ironic that D2 was not invited when she holds on office in two community service organizations and is a member in yet another one, with well over 300 hours of community service so far. (I am not stating that she's Mother Theresa, by any means, just a good kid who has always given back to her community. I thought that she would be a natural fit for what the Cincinnatus folks say they are looking for.) UC likes to talk about their interest in community service, but the Cincinnatus competition is clearly a means to increase average SAT/ACT scores. Rankings, anyone? (Yes, I am irked.)</p>

<p>Quiettype. Although there is no hard data as to who gets the top scholarships, there is no question that having great SATs/ACTs does filter into the equation I would be, in fact, that academic credentials are by far the highest factors in the determination.</p>

<p>Ineo42, I don't think it is 1/4 the number. If I recollect, there was about 1,100 invitees during my daughter's year. Thus, there are about 1/3 less now,which still should account for the dramatic increase in the median ACTs. Maybe in today's economic conditions, many kids are applying to state schools.</p>

<p>Taxguy - Yes, in fact, I would hope that academic credentials are extremely important in this determination. The school should say so then, and stop patting themselves on the back on how they are rewarding and emphasizing the importance of community service.</p>

<p>Damn, I hate that we can't edit our posts after the 20 minute from the posting time.</p>

<p>I should have said in post number 16, " Although there probably is a factor of community involvement/ extra curricular activities as part of the consideration. However, I would be, in fact,amazed if academic credentials weren't the highest factor in the determination." </p>

<p>Also, I should have said, Thus, there are about 1/3 less now,which still shouldn't account for the dramatic increase in the median ACTs.</p>

<p>Try the national coop scholarship, that is a scholarship for high school students that are going to schools that offer coops.</p>

<p>National</a> Commission for Cooperative Education</p>

<p>Taxguy, first I want to thank you for great information and insights. My daughter, who wants to pursue graphic design, seems to be on much the same track as your daughter was. Currently, UC, Syracuse, RIT, and CMU are on the short list. Many, many of your posts have helped us through the process. UC's program really struck a chord with her so she was thrilled to be accepted into DAAP. Her grades are good, SAT's were 2010, strong extra-curriculars and community service... and no Cincinnatus. We were really disappointed and perplexed, to put it mildly. </p>

<p>Soymilk- She's working on that application now. But the fact remains I would really like to have seen some financial encouragement from UC for an out-of-stater with good stats.</p>