Daily Princetonian: Investigation into alleged admissions bias expands

Colleges & Universities Princeton University
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<p>Exactly. Asians more American than blacks? Does anyone actually think this way? Blacks are definitely viewed as more American than Asians. In fact, they are as American as whites. The comment from a few pages back about Asians and their “home country” demonstrates that the perception of Asians as perpetual outsiders still exists.</p>

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<p>Alan R. Templeton, Ph.D., professor of biology in Arts and Sciences, has analyzed DNA from global human populations that reveal the patterns of human evolution over the past one million years. He shows that while there is plenty of genetic variation in humans, most of the variation is individual variation. While between-population variation exists, it is either too small, which is a quantitative variation, or it is not the right type of qualitative variation – it does not mark historical sublineages of humanity.</p>

<p>Using the latest molecular biology techniques, Templeton has analyzed millions of genetic sequences found in three distinct types of human DNA and concludes that, in the scientific sense, there is no such thing as race.</p>

<p>“Race is a real cultural, political and economic concept in society, but it is not a biological concept, and that unfortunately is what many people wrongfully consider to be the essence of race in humans – genetic differences,”</p>

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<p>Then this advantage compared to blacks is a skills deficit, to borrow from Dinesh D’Souza.</p>

<p>Unless my father and every Chinese professor I know are magic outliers, most Chinese immigrants to the United States aren’t graduates from the “Chinese Ivy Leagues” (i.e. Beijing University, Qinghua University, etc.) Most are graduates from schools that are equivalent to our best state universities. Yet, they’ve been fairly successful in their new country. Why? Because they really don’t have a skills deficit compared to native-born Americans.</p>

<p>One of the prevailing attitudes in the pro-racial preference movement is, “CSU East Bay isn’t good enough. He needs to attend Berkeley.” They are sorely misguided. They want to focus on increasing black enrollment at select schools when they should be focusing on increasing black enrollment across the board. If select school enrollment goes up, then great. If it doesn’t, then it doesn’t matter as long as the total number increases.</p>

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<p>The IQ argument is irrelevant to college admissions, as colleges are not interested in admitting an entire student body based on high IQ.</p>

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<p>“First off, this is not a condemnation of blacks as inferior, just less intelligent.”</p>

<p>I’m confused. You say one thing then another.
Again, I say currently there is no scientific basis for such thought. There are only statistics and even the statistics you have contain so many confounding variables that you can reach no conclusion from them.</p>

<p>For example, here is an excerpt from one article from the Journal of Blacks in Higher Education that I was unable to finish reading because it would require me to purchase it.</p>

<p>“The comparison of the SAT scores of groups of blacks and whites who currently earn similiar incomes naturally leads one to believe that we are often comparing students from similiar educational, social, and cultural backrounds. But the fact is that we are often comparing apples and oranges. Black and white families with incomes between $80,000 and $100,000 tend to have completely different backgrounds and social and educational characteristics.”</p>

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<p>In response to dontno, I agree that intelligence has a large genetic component. I find it hard to believe that the huge discrepancies between blacks and whites on conventional intelligence indicators even when controlling for socioeconomic status can be explained away by culture. The same goes for the vastly disproportionate success of certain groups like Ashkenazi Jews. Just look at your surroundings and use your logic and it’l all be self evident.</p>

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Asians in their home countries score higher on IQ tests than Europeans. The SAT differential between Asians & Whites within the US merely mirrors the difference that occurs when native populations are tested for IQ in their own language in non-cultural IQ tests (Matrices test, etc).</p>

<p>No one debates the IQ gap within different races in the US. The gap is there, it is persistent and it is changing only very little over time (Flynn effect is not closing it up). The only question is whether the gap is due to environment, genetics, or both. Of course, the latter two reasons are unmentionable in Western culture (James Watson, et al). If any development occurs about the genetic origin of intelligence and how intelligence genes are distributed between races it will be done in China because the Chinese government does not care about being politically correct.</p>

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<p>I don’t have a problem if someone says it with actual proof, but when someone says it because of flawed statistics then it becomes a problem for me as a logical person who grew up with the scientific method.</p>

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IQ is the most important variable in the college admission process. There is nothing else that even comes close. Not athletic ability, not parental wealth, not ECs, not legacy status, etc.</p>

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Hmmm, this sounds like it would actually be an intelligent policy! The simple fact of the matter is that this massive push for URM talent at top ranked schools means that at mid ranked and bottom tier there simply is a huge dearth of URM talent. There simply is very few people left to recruit. It’s about increasing the total pie, not making the elite more elite…</p>

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<p>This is incorrect information, as I know from reading Flynn’s latest book, which I recommend that all of you read. </p>

<p>[Amazon.com:</a> What is Intelligence?: Beyond the Flynn Effect: James R. Flynn: Books](<a href=“http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/dp/0521880076/]Amazon.com:”>http://www.amazon.com/What-Intelligence-Beyond-Flynn-Effect/dp/0521880076/) </p>

<p>P.S. I think it may help the development of the discussion to merge some of the posts from this thread into the main FAQ thread on ethnic self-identification in college admission on the College Admissions Forum, where some of the more general comments are possibly on topic (as they probably aren’t here on the Princeton Forum).</p>

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<p>IQ is not a variable. Psychologists don’t even know what it really means. For example, alot of the “gifted” students in my middle school got IQ tests. My friend tested much lower than me, but got much better grades and SAT/ACT scores than I did. However, I’m going to Wesleyan and he’s going to St. Michael’s. There is obviously much more to it.</p>

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You’re correct. I haven’t read the book, but there is significant discussion on this topic from the usual figures. More decades of data will be needed, as European Americans IQ scores stopped being affected until only recently.</p>

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I suppose it depends on what you think “a variable is”. It’s a trait which is highly genetically determined. As is height, facial features, musculature, etc.</p>

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Seriously? It’s simply a poor way (but the best available) of quantifying a general mental ability.</p>

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Anecdote, totally irrelevant.</p>

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<p>Okay, I’ve given notice above, and from now on I’ll move posts here that pertain to general issues not specific to Princeton from this Princeton Forum to the main FAQ thread on the College Admissions Forum. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/441477-fastest-growing-ethnic-category-great-colleges-race-unknown.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/441477-fastest-growing-ethnic-category-great-colleges-race-unknown.html&lt;/a&gt; </p>

<p>Posts here that stay on the topic of the original post of this thread, which was about an investigation related to Princeton’s particular practices, can stay here. I’ll try to post moving notices by editing posts in a user-friendly way, but you may as well just move over to the general thread now if what you are looking for is the general discussion. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/441477-fastest-growing-ethnic-category-great-colleges-race-unknown.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/441477-fastest-growing-ethnic-category-great-colleges-race-unknown.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>I would pick applicant 2, hands down, no doubt in my mind. He seems to be the “Jian Li” type of applicant: strong academically but isn’t just all about the numbers. They are very similar individuals, but applicant 2 is stronger academically.</p>

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<p>As forewarned above, the recent posts on the general subject have been moved to the FAQ thread on the College Admissions Forum. </p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/441477-fastest-growing-ethnic-category-great-colleges-race-unknown.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-admissions/441477-fastest-growing-ethnic-category-great-colleges-race-unknown.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>What I got from this thread: Distorted views of race dynamics from users sheltered in cozy suburbia. Hooray :)</p>

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<p>Just to clarify one thing:
11% is the percentage of black students population at Harvard, not the admissions rate of black students to Harvard.</p>