<p>The stats for UMich disturb me.</p>
<p>Ave. SAT by Race:
Asian - 1400
Caucasion - 1350
African American - 1160
Hispanic - 1260</p>
<p>1260 isn’t a bad score. But 1160? C’mon. That is not acceptable when you hold Asian/White students to such a high standard. I wonder what percentage of African American students are accepted.</p>
<p>Hey Joe, I’m applying to Princeton next year. Mind if I ask what your stats are? PM me.</p>
<p>is that the old SAT or new?</p>
<p>It’s the old SAT.</p>
<p>its still above average…</p>
<p>i don’t think jian has a case…because Princeton didn’t reject all Asian applicants just him…and when he applied to the University he didn’t apply as an Asian, but rather as himself Jian Li who happened to be Asian…He got into flippen Yale University…what is he complaining about? He has no case in my opinion…admissions are subjective…I know black students with higher SAT scores than me who got rejected from schools I got accepted to and vice versa…yes race provides a “boost” but is by no means a guarentee…There is nothing you can do that “qualifies” or “guarentees” admission to an Ivy League school because it is not a RIGHT …Jian Li’s right was to have his application seriously reviewed …and It was…and just because the result he expected didn’t happen that doesn’t mean his Rights were violated…just his expectations frustrated…</p>
<p>Mr Tubz that is what I have been telling them since day 1, refer to my past posts.</p>
<p>1160 is above average, but that doesn’t mean it’s okay to let students who are just above average in based on their race.</p>
<p>is there evidence that an asian student with a 1160 was rejected? If so, then I would concede that it is racism.</p>
<p>Dr. Science, that doesn’t disprove my argument. The average have huge gaps between that, why do you think that?</p>
<p>I’m not dismissing your agrument, just questioning it. </p>
<p>Okay, I admit. Black people are generally a dumb/lazy race and need you to give them low SAT cutoffs otherwise schools would slip back into segregation or they would be poorly represented. Happy? Either way, whites still account for nearly have of Ivy League alumni, therefore if AA is elimnated Legacy should follow. </p>
<p>All I know is that as far as international students are concerned, primarily those from third world countries, you cannot expect them to have to be exposed to the same level of vocabulary. Their educational systems are poor, they do not have adequate libraries and English is not their primary language and many of them are at socio-economic disadvantage. Therefore, they should not be expected to have a high critical reading or writing score.</p>
<p>How can you automatically assume someone had a hard family life or surroundings simply because they’re black?</p>
<p>
What exactly are you arguing for? International students should given an advantage? That’s an entirely different issue. Most minorities that apply to US colleges are American citizens. Once again, no educational facilities, no libraries, no academic resources- those are socioeconomic factors, and colleges should definitely take those into account when judging the applicant. But not simply because the person is black, white, Asian, etc. should they be handed some inherent advantage/disadvantage.</p>
<p>And what do you mean by “people like you”? You need to stop generalizing. I was not born in the US and yes I too had to go through tons of prep books, ESL courses, and countless hours of self-study sessions in order to learn English. But that doesn’t make me special or mean I deserve to be treated differently from other Americans when I apply for college.</p>
<p>Gnfan I’m being sarcastic, for lack of a better word, lol. I don’t know what else to say. Both sides have made compelling arguments. I just don’t think that AA plays such a significant role as people make it seem.</p>
<p>Now to be honest gnfan, a very large majortiy of blacks are below the poverty line and live in segregated communities which we call projects, I guess its a form of euphemism. I think that poverty can affect the education a person receives, thats why I support AA.</p>
<p>.</p>
<p>Wraider and others - we’ll maybe I just can’t conceptualize or grasp the idea of eliminating Affirmative Action. Like I said, whatever your stance, there are compelling arguments from both sides, you just have to try to reach a commonground/concensus.</p>
<p>But know this:</p>
<p>And I will say it again for the 4th time.</p>
<p>Nothing guarantees admission to the Ivy League. Nothing.</p>
<p>Dr. Science, read my article that I posted.</p>
<p>The majority of people assisted by AA are black people and there seems to be a general agreement, by many people in this thread and outside of it, that AA assists people based on their skin colour not socio-economic background. </p>
<p>But do you think the answer to this dispute is to totally eliminate Affirmative Action? Think about it. There is a problem with the accessibility of a college education for minorities.</p>
<p>For some clarification - Affirmative Action would not help a white person if he was below the poverty line?</p>
<p>In my high school law class, I was told that the definition of affirmative action was: “to increase the representation of people who have been previously discriminated against”; not to help people from a certain socio-economic background. So I would imagine that it would not help white people and for a good reason.</p>
<p>Asians have not experienced PROFOUND discrimination, so why should AA help that Asian kid get into Princeton.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I don’t mean to be inflammatory, but before you make such an assertion, you need to understand the culture fully. I’m not typing here trying to assert that “all black people are reppin’ tha hood,” - that is plain racist and stereotypical, and just WRONG - kind of like saying all Asians are going to get beat if they don’t get a 2400.</p>
<p>However, so is such an assertion. There are plenty of Asians who are obsessed with sports on a level FAR more than many white and black Americans. I mean, then again, this assertion is just like saying all URM’s getting admitted to HYPS are underqualified - again, that is wrong. I happen to be Asian and extremely interested in sports, thank you. </p>
<p>I will put my opinon down here then:</p>
<p>Affirmative Action is a good concept. Instituted correctly, it does not give somebody a ‘leg up,’ but rather makes it so that the admissions process takes into account other factors that are relevant. However, the way it seems AA works now (from what we know - for all we know AA may work in a whole different way than we think), race is a factor in admissions. This is a problem, because giving one race an advantage over the other due to race and race alone is unfair. Giving somebody a small advantage due to socioeconomic and other relevant factors makes sense, because these applicants have shown that they do have what it takes to succeed. However, being Asian, Black, Caucasian, Hispanic, or any other race does not make you any more or less qualified as the next guy. </p>
<p>Also, to address past discrimination as an argument for racial AA - I will use, as I tend to do, a sports example. Saying that blacks and women were discriminated against in the past is true - it is a disgusting thing, but it is sadly the truth. However, saying that a black applicant should have a leg up on admissions because of the past hardships of blacks is like saying the New York Knicks are the best team in the NBA right now because of their 1973 NBA Title. Sure this title does have an affect on who the Knicks are now - it is part of their heritage and will be rightfully remembered. Yet is this title really merit of making them #1 right now? Apply the concept of past discrimination and you’ll see what I mean.</p>
<p>I’m not trying to be stereotypical or racist with my sports analogy, by the way, just trying to find someting that mirrors the situation.</p>
<p>Any qualified applicant should be admitted - but race should not be a qualification.</p>