<p>umm the acceptance rates at williams amherst and swarthmore are all around 15%, but the acceptance rates for african americans is 50+%? even middlebury with that 72% acceptance rate had an overall acceptance rate of 18% this year i think</p>
<p>Dr. Science,</p>
<p>Accepting someone because they are a legacy is not racist. It is equally unfair to every race. No one ethnic group is being discriminated against. Specify was just stating that its not as controversial as Affirmative Action, not that it is less prevalent.</p>
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<p>Do ordinary people watching the 10 pm news know that? Race peaks the interests of ordinary people and the newsrooms know this.</p>
<p>Also, why are your posts are getting more and more pejorative?</p>
<p>No, he stated, “race gets more attention than legacy”, which is utterly false.</p>
<p>well you stated that “The selectivity of those universities on that link are what? 54%? Get real.” that is utterly false</p>
<p>you’ve got to calm down dude</p>
<p>I’m not meaning to sound pejorative. My opinion is the underdog in this thread. </p>
<p>Just trying to argue my point effectively.</p>
<p>Just don’t get mad at facts. Thats what makes me mad.</p>
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<p>I said it gets more attention to the situation at hand (jian li) than legacy would, not attention to the applicant in the admissions process.</p>
<p>in other words:</p>
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Asians tend to do well in school, because their culture values academic achievement very highly, regardless of socio-economic status. The same cannot be said about many URMs, where socio-economic status and emphasis placed on academic achievement seem to be correlated.</p>
<p>It is not just URMs that do not value academic achievement like Asians. Most traditional white ethnic groups don’t either. . . Can anyone ever imagine ANY Asian ever being obsessed with sports at any level like many white and black Americans?</p>
<p>Now, before anyone revolts, just THINK. I am not trying to attack anyone. I am being realistic and offering my observations after 50 years on the planet.</p>
<p>As for the lawsuit against Princeton, let’s see how the discovery process unfolds. I am doubtful that any such case will be successful unless someone is located in Princeton’s admissions office ON TAPE telling the plaintiff that he was a sure admit. . .</p>
<p>Barristerdad, you have a good head screwed on your shoulders.</p>
<p>MODERATOR’S NOTE TO “Daily Princetonian: Investigation into alleged admissions bias expands” THREAD: </p>
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<p>Enjoy the discussion, as I have enjoyed it, and please keep your discussion civil and focused on the issues.</p>
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<p>I can. There are plenty of parents in Asia and China in particular that are obsessed with pushing their child to be the next Olympic medalist. There are some families who send their kids off to Olympic training centers once they turn 4 or 5 - don’t you think that qualifies as being obsessed with sports on the same level as some whites and blacks (who apparently has a monopoly on sports-obsessiveness in your world)? Get off your racial high horse and consult your 50 years of accumulated wisdom before making such blatantly wrong statements.</p>
<p>As for my take on the topic… I think it’s wonderful that Princeton’s opening up its old files on admission, though I also think it’s inevitable that it will not lead to discrimination charges against Princeton with its “holistic admissions process.”</p>
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That’s such a blanket statement that really is not applicable at all to this discussion. Like ALL white people in the history of the US always had access to education, and ALL women and blacks didn’t. Like experiencing “profound adversity” is exclusively reserved for blacks or women. Just because you are white does not mean you can’t be discriminated against, and just because you are black does not mean people should automatically assume you have experienced “profound adversity”.</p>
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Exactly. With regards to both legacy status and race, being born to certain parents is not an accomplishment.</p>
<p>I’ll post this article I wrote for Bard this year on a similar topic. It is not written as well as I had hoped it would be, but I think it gets the point across:</p>
<p><a href=“http://observer.bard.edu/archives/Issue%20four[/url]”>http://observer.bard.edu/archives/Issue%20four</a></p>
<p>My article is on page 8, titled “Being against affirmative action is not racist”. They gave me that title, I didn’t come up with it. For background, Enrico wrote an article against Affirmative Action at Bard and got many responces back, mostly insulting him and calling him racist. We both wrote responces back and the conflict ended.</p>
<p>I feel my article applies to this discussion because it addresses the real issue at hand. Are schools looking for actual diversity, or are they looking to paint of picture of a culturally diverse school that does not hold true past the photograph on the cover of their pamphlet?</p>
<p>Wraider, I can tell you that as a person who is a semi-international student (US Citizen Living Abroad) certain people do not have the same opprotunities as you. There is no way you can expect an international student from say Africa to be exposed to the same level of vocabulary you have. Most third world countries don’t even have libraries and if they do you can go through their collection by junior year. </p>
<p>On top of that, they do not have the educational facilities nor the teachers to help them become learned and educated high school students. Do you know how much self-study I had to do with prep books so I could be up to speed with people like you? I know how it feels that’s why I am an advocate of URM’s.</p>
<p>I was referring to Asians that are in the U.S. , not in their home country!</p>
<p>@dontno, a couple of pages back :)</p>
<p>I suppose that’s fine if you believe that Asians are inherently superior intellectually to whites, hispanics, and blacks. I wasn’t immediately dismissing it, merely suggesting that it was the only logical consequence of your argument. It’s a possibility, but given everything that I have seen at my school, I attribute the differences in performance to something else entirely. The Asians I do know are incredibly hard working because of their culture, and I have never noticed any sort of superior intelligence. Similarly, the unfortunate negative attitude that many Hispanics and blacks have prohibit them from performing well, but the ones lucky enough to escape that culture (and I don’t think you understand the difficulties of escaping a culture) have performed quite admirably–often at the expense of having no friends from their culture and feeling quite isolated. Perhaps you have noticed some inherent superiority in the lazy Asian and some inferiority in the hard-working black, I don’t know.</p>
<p>Just as you cringe at my statements admiring blacks who have overcome their culture, I cringe at your comment regarding whites who must face becoming “social parahas” at all schools (I am sure this does happen at lower performing schools, though). I have absolutely never heard of this outside of films. The high school I attended and the schools my friends attended were nothing at all like that, and these are schools with a minority of the population going to college. The students who do well (who often take AP and honors classes together) always have their classmates to support each other, and at many, many higher performing schools, there are a considerable number of these students. I don’t think you can be considered a “social paraha” when many of your peers do exactly as you do, unless you only value the opinion of those who underperform.</p>
<p>Now, the reason I feel it is different achievement for a impoverished black student to do well in the same school over a wealthy white student is the culture. It sounds like you come from a background where your family, your family’s friends, and your personal friends all have performed in a way conducive to school achievement. You’re exposed to an environment that values an education. Whether you acknowledge this or not, all your life you’ve been surrounded with this culture, and this culture has become a part of you. You say your friends never made fun of you for doing well on the grounds that you were “lazy.” But you still did well, didn’t you? Now, and of course I am again generalizing and I realize this is not always the case, consider the impoverished black student’s environment. His parents, more likely than not, did not receive an education. From the onset, before school even begins, the child is not exposed to an environment that values education. They are exposed to an environment that attacks educational achievement. If this student does manage to eventually enroll in honors and AP classes, all the friends they have made over the years (who are more likely to be black as people most closely identify with those of a similar culture) may make fun of them and stop talking to them. In elementary and middle school, the former friends of the student may beat up this kid and harass him for “selling out.” At such a young age, this can have devastating effects. You yourself made this same observation that black students have a considerably more negative attitude toward education: imagine the effects this attitude has on a student who most closely identifies with this culture, especially at such a young age. The student who manages to enroll in more advanced courses feels isolated as he can make no friends from his background and upbringing. It’s hard, and the very very few blacks I have spoken to from my classes have shared their feelings of isolation. Yes, opportunities may be available, but not only are the opportunities more inaccessible to this student than to the student from a stronger background, the entire culture of this student condemns this “selling out.” I don’t know how I would have done had I experienced that: without my parents to support me as they have, I truly do not believe I would’ve achieved at the level I have. Maybe you feel you would have, but environment is a rather large factor: it’s not all nature.</p>
<p>And I hope this hasn’t gotten too emotional. I have enjoyed discussing this with you: knowing I can have discussions like this make me excited for Princeton. I hope the feelings are mutual! :)</p>
<p>this kid, jian li, is bs. i know plenty of asian kids who didnt get perfect scores and got into the schools he got rejected from.</p>
<p>Very well said, Joe.</p>