<p>Yes, many people have stopped and come up with your conclusion. Many of these people also failed to do an iota of research on Jian Li’s case as these are the same people who say the following:</p>
<ol>
<li>He thinks he’s entitled because he got a 2400.</li>
</ol>
<p>False. In an interview, Li said that many factors should be taken into consideration, just not race. Many supporters of racial preferences fail to understand that not considering race is not the same thing as a Chinese gaokao system. It’s such a simple concept, but their view on this issue makes it impossible for them to get it.</p>
<ol>
<li>He’s just bitter.</li>
</ol>
<p>False. Li said that he was happy at Yale. For whatever reason, he successfully transferred to Harvard. Why he did it is none of our business. In this country, he has a right to pursue his happiness as he sees fit, just like everyone else.</p>
<p>Just to remind you, if Li was really as boring as you think he is, then that must mean that Yale’s admissions officers suck, because they accepted such a loser.</p>
<p>They forbid immigration from China and many other countries even today. No one from China is allowed to enter the diversity lottery because they are overrepresented in the United States. Chinese people haven’t been discriminared against. please. After Whites, Asians make up the largest portion of the student population at major universities.</p>
<p>Actually, this is one of the key disagreements on the two sides of the affirmative action discussion.</p>
<p>Those for racial preferences tend to want a system that is “balanced.” They frequently speak of “looking like America.” They seldom use “proportional representation,” and they never use “quota.” Thus, to these people, an elite school filled with mostly whites and Asians is unacceptable because it’s not balanced; it doesn’t look anything like “America.”</p>
<p>Those against racial preferences tend not to give a crap about balancing, which is un-Constitutional (see Parents Involved, opinion of Chief Justice Roberts.) They don’t care if a university is mostly white and Asian as long as those white and Asian students are there because of merit.</p>
<p>No, that is not correct. The United States does not forbid immigration from China. The United States restricts immigration from China. Forbid means no one is allowed in. That is what happened as a result of the Chinese Exclusion Act. Restrict means some are allowed while others aren’t.</p>
<p>If you honestly believe that Chinese haven’t been discriminated against in this country, then like wraider2006 said, “it’s hard to take you seriously anymore.”</p>
<p>You guys think you’re hot shots…
I’m just curious…
Do you think Jian Li’s case is valid?
Also, do you think AA should make it so that even more asians are admitted to top universities?</p>
<p>It’s hard to take you guys seriously anymore!</p>
<p>Fabrizio: The fact is that Li has no idea why he was rejected from Princeton and yes, he the only conclusion anyone can come to is that he was bitter at being waitlisted and then rejected.</p>
<p>The kid had a 2400 SAT and great grades, but it’s still entirely possible that according to his application he was BORING. It’s just not possible for Yale or any other school to fill their roster with interesting kids, they have to pick some that are boring but have great stats. He thought that he was entitled to a Princeton education and is bitter about it, the fact that he was going to Yale and is now at Harvard and is STILL making this an issue is pretty pathetic. If the kid had some form of evidence to back up his allegation that his rejection was based on his race this would be an entirely different discussions, even though I would still disagree with him I could see why he would be making a big deal out of it.</p>
<p>This is the kind of argument that made Larry Summers resign from his post as president of Harvard University - making generalizations about a large group of people with huge diversity within. I’m sure there are Asians who “nerd out” about standardized tests, but there are also whites, Hispanics, and Blacks who decide that studying for their SATs/ACTs were more important than watching the Final Four. </p>
<p>Putting aside your racism in automatically assuming that Hispanics or Blacks are more interesting to sit across and brings a more “different” perspective than Whites or Asians, do you honestly believe that race is the defining characteristic in forming anyone’s perspective? What about books? Movies? Culture? Friends? Family? Economic status? Political beliefs? Are all those things pointless, because hey, if you’re Asian, you’d only have perspective x, y, or z, and if you’re Black you can only have perspective a, b, and c?</p>
<p>Maybe they rejected him cause he came off as a jerk, seeing that he’s the kind of person who would be bitter enough to lodge a federal complaint for being rejected.</p>
<p>Seriously though, I can almost see this case being valid in a roundabout, unintended way (all because of AA of course). Colleges are limited to the amount of students they can enroll. Because of AA, all races must be represented. This detracts from the white and asian population, which have the most amounts of applications, meaning that some qualified students would have to be rejected.</p>
<p>Imagine the student body of a school that took the top 8% based on numbers.</p>
<p>The theory in favor of AA is that learning in an environment that is racially diverse is valuable in and of itself. AA does not exist to right past wrongs (altho’ this is why AA is necessary to achieve diversity), nor is it a socio-economic argument (those students get their own “AA”). Elite colleges view a racially diverse learning environment as beneficial to you, the student, since the country and world that you will venture forth into will be racially diverse. It is reality. It is life. In theory, AA also benefits elite colleges, our country and world since its alums of every race will venture forth to improve the lot of all races, not just whites and Asians. Look at the “big picture,” not just your application chances, and you will understand it.</p>
<p>the ivy league has many more capable applicants than spots. i believe harvard has said that they could take their first batch of acceptees, toss them, pick a whole new group from the remainder, toss that batch, pick again, and still have a class that would be no different from the first or second. harvard has also stated that a large majority of its applicants (x>70%, the exact number escapes me) are qualified enough to attend harvard. </p>
<p>so what thought goes into selecting those few people, who are all apparently qualified enough to go to a school like harvard? among other things, there is a general bias towards those of certain races. if everyone is qualified enough, then a larger percentage of URMs are accepted–for example, harvard’s African-American acceptance rate was 11%, but the general acceptance rate was only around 7-9%. there is a leg-up somewhere for African-Americans and other URMs. why? you can’t seriously say that URMs have more ‘interesting’ lives or histories than ORMs, or that they all were poorer and provided with less opportunities. some of them have, sure, but you can’t say that ALL of them are the same. they aren’t–people are different. in a holistic admissions process where the selection pool is among the most competitive in the entire world, having race as a make-or-break factor just doesn’t seem right. if an asian or white guy worked hard, why does s/he have to be sidestepped due to his/her race?</p>
<p>i can understand the validity of socioeconomic affirmative action, because it seems to be a more accurate generalization. not all african-americans are inherently disadvantaged, but all poor kids are. money helps you improve your SATs, gets you in better neighborhoods with better schools, allows you to engage in extracurricular activities and other expressions of self, and in general improves one’s living. being white or asian does not automatically guarantee that.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people on this thread seriously believe that ALL qualified African Americans get accepted to top universities.
You guys make me sick…</p>
<p>I think Lis case is very valid. Look at the archives of CC before Li filed his complaint. Li didnt bring any new information to light; he just made public what was long known by people familiar with college admissions. Thats a good thing.</p>
<p>Im against affirmative action as currently practiced. Thus, I dont think affirmative action should make it so that even more Asians are admitted to top universities. To me, thats as wrong as the affirmative action that gives black applicants * equivalent of* 240 extra SAT points.</p>
<p>Unlike other users, I have not rewrote history to suit my own biases. Nevertheless, you are absolutely entitled to take everything I say with a huge grain of salt.</p>
<p>(Scroll down for ethnicity figures.) The previous year reported a considerably smaller number of students as “race unknown,” so it may be that the very recent trend at Princeton is for more applicants to decline to self-report ethnicity. The figures for the enrolled class that is just being admitted now should be available just after the turn of the year.</p>
<p>Of course Li has no idea why he was rejected from Princeton. No university actually tells its rejectees the exact reasons why they were rejected.</p>
<p>No, that is not the only conclusion “anyone” can come to. That you came to such a conclusion shows what little research you did on the case. Li said that he was not bitter, that he was happy at Yale. Moreover, you say that he’s “still” making this an issue. That really proves that you don’t know much about this case and that you’re writing from emotion. Li filed his complaint in 2006, a year before he transferred to Harvard.</p>
<p>You underestimate both the prestige of Yale and the completeness of American students. Yale is not some school that “has” to take boring students. Moreover, our country has many high-scoring and interesting students. They are certainly not scarce.</p>
<p>Espenshade and Chung found that being black was worth the equivalent of 240 extra SAT points. They did not find that being black was worth automatic admission. To put it bluntly, your thought is mistaken.</p>
<p>Well, then you must really be asking yourself, Who the hell at Harvard admitted this guy as a transfer? I did not know that Harvard was in the business of admitting jerks who are bitter about their losses. I guess you learn something new everyday.</p>
<p>As I wrote in #161, I will never understand why it is impossible for so many supporters of racial preferences to understand the following simple fact:</p>
<p>Removing race from admissions criteria does not mean numbers only.</p>
<p>2) You have to choose between two applicants.</p>
<p>3) Race is not on the application, you have no idea where/how they grew up or anything (and this isn’t shown in their essays)</p>
<p>4) Applicant 1:
SAT: 2170
GPA (UW): 3.92
7 APs: three 5s, three 4s, one 3.
Rank: (18/520)
ECs: 3 clubs they always are a part of. A couple other random Ecs. 2 leadership positions. 2-sport varsity player.
Community service: 1000 hours.
Teacher RECs: Excellent.</p>
<p>Essay: Talked about playing basketball…amazing essay, showed his personality and his qualities very well.
Personal statement: About how he really loves math and wants to be a mathematician and how Princeton would help him get their.</p>
<p>5) Applicant:
SAT: 2400
GPA (UW): 4.0
17 APs: fourteen 5s, three 4s/
Rank: (1/260)
ECs: 3 clubs they always are a part of. A couple other random Ecs. 2 leadership positions. 2-sport varsity player.
Community service: 1000 hours.
Teacher RECs: Excellent.</p>
<p>Essay: Talked about playing basketball…amazing essay, showed his personality and his qualities very well.
Personal statement: About how he really loves math and wants to be a mathematician and how Princeton would help him get their.</p>
<p>I believe Dr. Thomas Sowell has written about all-black high schools that in decades past were very successful in sending students to schools like Amherst and Harvard. They didn’t learn in “racially diverse” environments, but they learned nevertheless, and they learned a lot. Now, those schools are mere shadows of what they used to be. Of course, if you know anything about Dr. Sowell’s political philosophy, then you know who he faults for it.</p>
<p>When I look at the big picture with my biases as opposed to yours, I understand that affirmative action is one massive cop-out. It’s a cheap way out to a huge problem. It doesn’t solve anything, but it sure makes the people in charge feel good about themselves.</p>