Daily Princetonian Makes Fun of Stereotypical Asian Students

<p>^</p>

<p>The U.S. may trump China, but Canada’s contribution would be meager at best. But China’s really revved up for 2008, and they should be neck and neck with the States.</p>

<p>Back to the topic, here’s an enlightening response by Jeff Yang, a SF Chronicle writer who happens to be an Asian Ivy League grad who doesn’t speak in broken English. In fact, he seems quite erudite!</p>

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<p>If people want a summary of the above article (a very funny one in IMHO, I recommend that you read it thoroughly), some of my favourite points are:</p>

<p>1) Why is always the bad comedians who lecture audiences on having a sense of humour?</p>

<p>2) The Princeton article fails to introduce any kind of element that ridicules those who would take the stereotypes seriously (and there are many who probably do), and instead just throw out a bunch of tired slurs. Thus it fails as a satire, and almost qualifies as race-bashing.</p>

<p>3) Asians must be laughing every time they get the “I’m sorry you suck enough to be offended at our brilliant jokes” apologies from the likes of every comedic hack out there who desperately needs laughs. Remember that Simpsons episode where Krusty was invited to a comedy festival, and while everybody else was hip and hilarious, he was a total dud as he whipped out tired old Asian jokes? The point? Unfunny comedians = Asian jokes.</p>

<p>Anyway, it’s quite obvious that Princetonians are better off memorizing SAT words or learning to suck up to future CEOs, as opposed to trying to challenge social convention or using creative wit. Haha, I kid I kid. I’m an Ivy Leaguer myself.</p>

<p>hahahahah i can totally laugh my ass off for this YO MAN I’M CHINESE TOO mad respect :slight_smile: yale is good too, don’t worry it’s ok it’s not the end of the world</p>

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<p>WOW. That would be an amazing article… someone write it immediately. =)</p>

<p>^That’s just like Harold and Kumar.</p>

<p>Harold and Kumar was actually a very funny movie. I liked all the asian Investment Banking stereotypes and the Indian pre-med stereotypes.</p>

<p>Like the white guy who talked about giving the asian guy extra number crunching work- “Asians love that stuff! You probably made his weekend!” </p>

<p>It was funny for asians and whites viewing because they realized how ridiculous the stereotype was. It was good satirical humor, as people have discussed above.</p>

<p>epiphany -

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<p>It is “rationalization” when you don’t even acknowledge other factors such as the LOWER admittance rate Princeton has for Asian-Am applicants.</p>

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<p><a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW05-06/08-0215/features.html[/url]”>http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW05-06/08-0215/features.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And how do you explain the fact that other Ivies such as Columbia and Penn have a HIGHER % of Asian students than Princeton - wouldn’t they suffer from the “yield problem” in relation to Princeton?</p>

<p>Plus, since Asian parents are only interested in “prestige” - wouldn’t Princeton be the no.1 or 2 choice - since it has consistently been ranked ahead of Yale (alternating w/ Harvard at the top)?</p>

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<p>As far as Harold & Kumar - the 2 screenwriters wrote the screenplay b/c they didn’t see any Hollyood films being made with Asian-Am male characters like their friends and instead, only saw stereotypical depictions.</p>

<p>And when the studio pressured them to change one of the leads into a WM -they had to fight the studio to keep both leads Asian (one East, one South) since the message and whole point of the film would have been lost (stupid studio execs).</p>

<p>k&s,
I don’t know why you persist in putting words in my mouth, but I’m tired of the “set-up” questions, such as,</p>

<p>“since Asians are only interested in prestige…” </p>

<p>That quote was contextualized within other direct questions you asked <em>me</em> in particular. I never made such a statement or opinion. You do not know how to debate in a civil & rational format, and I do not appreciate that fact. I never suggested a reason for the frequent preference of Asians for Harvard vs. Princeton, when accepted to both.</p>

<p>I’ll make a stab at some of your concerns anyway. I have hardly made any claim to some omniscience as to the reasons for various yield factors, but it’s <em>possible</em> that,</p>

<p>–particular programs at Penn & Columbia, particular opportunities, have appealed to those Asians who have accepted offers there;
–the greater number of programs, & the greater size of the above Universities, may be a draw factor for any number of students, including & not limited to Asians. Clearly this would also apply to Harvard, including its many graduate programs.</p>

<p>One thing is very clear, though. I am hardly responsible for any perceived or real Asian preference for any University over Princeton. I am not an employed, alumna, or representative member of Princeton University. I do not set their policy, construct their student body, nor do I read the freshman applications received. Get off my case. Now.</p>

<p>OMG ITS SO TRUE</p>

<p>blacks have it the best right now when it comes to racist humor. NOTHING gets the nation getting PC like a low blow to the african-american community in any area (art, entertainment, music, etc)</p>

<p>if i were asian, i’d be furious (or should i say, more furious) about this double standard.</p>

<p>asians are the ones that nobody is afraid to pick on. its not right.</p>

<p>I have similar feelings as ilovecalifornia.</p>

<p>Yes, the editors of the Princetonian apologized, but it took them two letters and they seemed very reluctant to do so.</p>

<p>In post 229, k&s mentioned a similar “joke” incident. There were two differences.</p>

<ol>
<li>The joke was on Blacks.</li>
<li>The editors immediately apologized once the uproar was created. There was no lame “we’re just joking, get a sense of humor!” rebuttal before an apology.</li>
</ol>

<p>What’s more, the editor of the Tufts publication explicitly stated “We’re sorry.” The editors of the Princetonian did apologize, but they were not so straightforward.</p>

<p>The excuse the Daily Princetonian used is soo… cliche.</p>

<p><em>Insert Asian stereotypical jokes here</em>
“I’m not racist because my girlfriend is Asian!”</p>

<p>epiph - “That quote was contextualized within other direct questions you asked <em>me</em> in particular. I never made such a statement or opinion. You do not know how to debate in a civil & rational format, and I do not appreciate that fact. I never suggested a reason for the frequent preference of Asians for Harvard vs. Princeton, when accepted to both.”</p>

<p>Right - and this is coming from the person who “explained away” the lower admittance rate for Asian applicants by stating that Asian applicants, overall, simply don’t meet the “holistic” requirements, and when I pointed out the fact that a no. of studies have shown that the ECs of Asian applicants are NO different from their white counterparts - you then “explained away” those studies by asserting that Asians may not be as committed to their ECs and that schools prefer “quality over quanity.”</p>

<p>Thus, in light of your previous posts - it’s hardly surprising that you are now trying to “explain away” the lower % of Asians at Princeton by bringing up any ridiculous possibilities (with absolutely no basis for it whatsoever).</p>

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<p>If size and breath of programs were factors not conducive for Asian applicants to attend Princeton - then why does a LAC like Wellesley (which is smaller and has even less of a variety of programs) have a much higher % of Asian students?</p>

<p>Maybe Wellesley just isn’t as interested in a student body with “holistic” interests?</p>

<p>But really, this attempt at an explanation is really laughable - do you really think most Asian applicants (or most applicants - period) would turn down Princeton for Penn or Columbia?</p>

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<p>epiph - “One thing is very clear, though. I am hardly responsible for any perceived or real Asian preference for any University over Princeton. I am not an employed, alumna, or representative member of Princeton University. I do not set their policy, construct their student body, nor do I read the freshman applications received. Get off my case. Now.”</p>

<p>Who said anything about you being responsible for whatever admissions biases that Princeton has?</p>

<p>My criticism has been of your statements which continue to “explain away” the lower admit rates for Asian applicants by stating that Asian applicants DON’T (overall) meet the “holistic” requirements as other applicants - despite evidence to the contrary.</p>

<p>And oh, btw, the admittance of Jewish students at Princeton dropped during the same period - so maybe Jewish applicants don’t have the “holistic” requirements or conversely, maybe schools like Harvard/Yale don’t care about holistic attributes as much as Princeton - take your pick.</p>

<p>"this is coming from the person who “explained away” the lower admittance rate for Asian applicants by stating that Asian applicants, overall, simply don’t meet the “holistic” requirements, and when I pointed out the fact that a no. of studies have shown that the ECs of Asian applicants are NO different from their white counterparts - you then “explained away” those studies by asserting that Asians may not be as committed to their ECs and that schools prefer “quality over quanity.”</p>

<p>I never ONCE directed such observations to Asians in particular. Never once. Stop misrepresenting my comments & misquoting me.</p>

<p>“Who said anything about you being responsible for whatever admissions biases that Princeton has?”</p>

<p>In your confrontational, demanding, ‘EXPLAIN IT!’ style, you have asked me over & over to explain decisions by students I have never met. Since I have never previously pretended to know the reasons for such decisions, your repeated attempts to get me to answer loaded questions (which you load, not me), amounts to an assumption that I am somehow responsible for such diversions away from Princeton. I am not.</p>

<p>I certainly am NOT misquoting you (go reread some of your posts).</p>

<p>Btw, it’s interesting to note that your compadre in thinking, AdOfficer acknowledges that there is a bias against Jewish applicants and that they are held to a higher standard, but totally dismisses the same for Asian applicants (despite Jews being “over”-represented at the Ivies at 4 times the rate of Asians in relation to their % of the pop.).</p>

<p>Even if the staff’s weak excuse of “we weren’t aware it was a joke”, it still demonstrates how when it comes to Asians, there are apparently no boundaries of courtesy. People know the limits when it comes to blacks and Jews, but when it comes to Asians, they either are ignorant or don’t care (most likely the latter). Both reasons are unacceptable and must be rectified.</p>

<p>What angers me the most is the cowardice of these self-righteous crusaders of unPC-ness and race discussion; yeah, they’re so brave and revolutionary that they pick on the easiest targets. They probably ruin their pants at the thought of getting a national tongue-lashing from Al Sharpton.</p>

<p>I have read all my posts & are quite aware of what they say. I never once said or implied any of the things that you claim. Never said or implied that Asians were interested in quantity not quality, that they didn’t have a sense of commitment about e.c.'s, etc. My comments addressed those posters who believed that high scores & other quantifiable academic features are the single or even main determinants of Elite college admissions. I have even said often in all these threads pertaining to Asians and AA, that these same admissions standards apply equally to all groups, not more to one ethnic or nationality group than another. None of those comments signify that Asians as a group have less “holistic” appeal than other “groups.” However, again, even such an observation is meaningless because groups are not admitted; individuals are.</p>

<p>Several posters have berated admissions officers in general for daring to include “personal qualities” as an aspect to be considered. Personal qualities covers a very wide ground, and includes aspects like character, commitment, generosity, integrity, passion, sincerity, and even leadership. The last I looked, no particular ethnic or national group had a lock on those qualities. I merely support any University’s interest in such qualities, because they are important not just for that student’s contribution to the campus community, but beyond, after graduation. Others have agreed with me that Universities are quite interested in how the student will do after graduation, how that will reflect on the U., how successful he or she will be, as that will reflect well on the institution and be good “P.R.” They will be just as interested, though, in the super-student of any background who quietly pursues academics & eventually ends up contributing to some ground-breaking scientific research. A campus doesn’t want all leaders, nor all nerds, nor all artists, nor all jocks. That’s their right, and again, you should take that up with them if YOU happen to feel that “Asians as a group” are supposedly lacking in some personal qualities that compromise their admissions chances. That’s YOUR thing, not mine. Take responsibility for your own defensiveness, since no one attacked you, at least not me.</p>

<p>As to AdOfficer, I’m not a “compadre.” If you have a gripe with that poster, ask or debate directly with that person.</p>

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<p>Oh yeah.</p>

<p>Like I mentioned before, the editor of the Tufts publication immediately issued a direct apology (“We’re sorry”). It took two letters before the editors of the Princetonian apologized, and they did not explicitly state “We’re sorry.”</p>

<p>To clarify, I’m not suggesting that the editors of the Princetonian are like some of the users here who suggest that Asians should get “thicker skin.” I’m agreeing that there’s not a ‘fear factor’ with respect to poking at Asians.</p>

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<p>That’s very true, but those subjective qualities leave a lot of potential room for discrimination.</p>

<p>“…but those subjective qualities leave a lot of potential room for discrimination.”</p>

<p>Really???
Asians aren’t as possessed of character, commitment, generosity, integrity, passion, sincerity, and leadership?
That’s certainly news to me.</p>

<p>nbachris,
ALL subjective elements of ALL applications – college, various scholarships, not to mention jobs – are susceptible to, at the least, imperfection. In anything that is not a data point on a graph, but requiring interpretation, “discrimination” in a broad sense (not limited, btw, to “race,” nationality, or ethnicity) is possible. People have regional biases, misperceptions, may have stereotypes about jocks or artists, one gender or another, sexual orientation, etc. Admissions officers probably try to be as even-handed as possible, but the process is partly art (or “imperfect science”). While one aspect of admissions may disfavor some group, another aspect may <em>favor</em> a different group – equally or more so.</p>

<p>To me, it really sounds as if some of you want Asians not only to be guaranteed zero disadvantages (i.e., not even having racial identification <em>considered</em> among the highly qualified subset of applicants, to ensure a reasonable class balance), you want to go beyond that: you seem to want a guarantee of some superior advantages. </p>

<p>Asians should have to meet the same criteria as everyone else: that would <em>include</em> the above personal qualities.</p>

<p>epiphany,</p>

<p>It just occurred to me that there’s yet another double standard with respect to treating Asians as minorities.</p>

<p>When the SAT scores of Blacks lag behind their White and Asian peers, racial preference supporters cry “Test bias!” “Unequal opportunity!” “Question ocean!”</p>

<p>When it is revealed that Harvard evaluators persistently rated Asian-Americans below whites on “personal qualities,” the same group turns a blind eye. In fact, some of them go so far as to tell us to pipe down for overplaying nonexistent discrimination.</p>

<p>Why is that?</p>

<p>I do not believe that Asian applicants are weaker in character, commitment, generosity, integrity, passion, sincerity, and leadership.</p>

<p>However, it certainly appears as if admissions officers feel the opposite is true (i.e. Asians are weaker in those areas).</p>

<p>As an American, I want a guarantee that my applications will be treated equally without bias. That means that my race should play no role in the evaluations. I want it to count neither for me nor against me. Racial preference is not the only way to ensure a “class balance.”</p>

<p>BUT! I absolutely do NOT want any preferential treatment. I can’t make that more clear. Many parents, though not necessarily you, have accused me of having a sense of entitlement, of believing that I and my group are superior, and so forth. I don’t have a sense of entitlement (beyond life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness) and I definitely don’t believe that Asians are inherently better.</p>

<p>I absolutely agree that Asians should have to meet the same criteria as everyone else. That’s the very essence of equal treatment. Racial preferences are not equal treatment.</p>

<p>(*) Quotation from the article “Poison Ivy” (Economist, 21 September 2006).</p>