Dance Parents: Heads Up

Parent Cafe
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<p>I danced as a kid, fairly seriously (anyone out there remember Joffrey?) but I have never really understood “competitive dance.” It seems to take the art of dance and extract any trace of art from it. I have mom friends who have become enormously involved in it. My sense is that it merges with cheerleading at some point.</p>

<p>Anyway, I tried like the dickens to get my D to do dance. She’s built for it – slim. long limbs, natural turn out, arched feet, etc. She just made it clear from the get-go that she hated it and so after a couple of attempts we stopped. </p>

<p>This was one of the two or three parenting moments I’m really proud off . . .just letting her say no to it. </p>

<p>She and I went to see Black Swan together. Yeah. Enough said.</p>

<p>But guess what? We both LOVE SYTYCD. </p>

<p>NOthing is all bad or all good.People bring their own issues to their pursuits.</p>

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<p>Sopranomom92, I have to disagree with you about competitive dance. Actually, I agree with you, with respect to the dancers who are actually tremendously talented. But of a thousand little girls who want to wear tutus, maybe none, maybe one of them will be talented enough to dance professionally. And of the thousand who are talented enough to dance professionally, how many of then actually have the opportunity?</p>

<p>Pros of competitive dance:</p>

<p>Girls function as a team. Some will never play a team sport, so dance gives them that team experience.</p>

<p>Dance gets the girls off the couch and into the studio, where they get some exercise.</p>

<p>Dance improves their posture and their self esteem.</p>

<p>Dance company teaches great organizational skills…keeping track of all the costume pieces,etc.</p>

<p>Dance helps memory.</p>

<p>If a girl performs in front of a large audience from the time she is little, she won’t have stage fright when it’s time to give a speech, talk in front of the class, etc.</p>

<p>Whether or not a girl has perfect technique, or is even ever very good, the dance company girls gain a lot of confidence that many young girls don’t have. They carry themselves with confidence.</p>

<p>Learning the different styles of dance broadens the dancer’s horizons. She’ll pay attention to the old movie musicals if she takes tap.</p>

<p>Most competitive dancers are good enough to be on their high school drill team, which gives them a group and a sense of belonging in high school.</p>

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<p>I can really relate to post #8–someone always left things behind or lost part of a costume. Our director had a thing about staying classy, so no bumps and grinds for any of our dancers. She was horrified at one competition we went to where the 6 year-olds were “shaking it” and the mothers from that studio were cheering the girls on.</p>

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<p>My kids never did competition dancing, but occasionally students from competition schools would take ballet class at their pre-professionally oriented studio. It was fascinating to see the differences between dancers from the two environments. The competition dancers were especially eye-catching, could do any number of fouettes without breaking a sweat, had enormous leaps, etc. But very often a dancer who could nail any combination on the right side would have terrible difficulty on the left because (or so my d was told) their studio didn’t require repeating the combination the same number of times from both sides of the classroom - something my kids’ teacher was almost superstitious about.</p>

<p>There seemed to be mutual appreciation amongst the girls - I think each side was interested in how the other half lived, but was happy to observe from a distance. As a non-competition dance mom, I was overjoyed not to have the costume and travel expense associated with the competition scene.</p>

<p>They’re two different worlds, but I’ve noticed that many spectacular dancers on SYTYCD and elsewhere seem to come from competition studios. So there are obviously good teachers in both environments. Competition schools seem to require more financial output (unless we’re comparing with a residential, top tier pre-pro ballet school); and as if more potential is there for extracting every last parental cent (of course, I don’t mean every competition studio).</p>

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<p>Another dance mom here (one of many hats I have worn)…</p>

<p>Missypie…re: your post #22…in my opinion, those are benefits for any dance student and not simply for those who do competitive dance. At my girls’ dance studio, they did not have dance competition teams and did not believe in that (and frankly, very few dance studios in this region participate in that). But everything you wrote in your post applied to my kids’ experiences in dance anyway. When you mention the “team” aspect…I will share that at our studio, there was a select jazz dance troupe by audition for those in high school that my younger D was in throughout HS. This was NOT for competitions at all. It was a repertory dance troupe that rehearsed weekly and performed around the region. This was in addition to all the many dance classes she (and the others) took in many dance styles. But it had nothing to do with competition and wasn’t like what I have seen on competition videos. Several of them went onto college dance programs (BFA and such). My kid went onto a BFA in Musical Theater.</p>

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<p>missypie, those are very good points. And all of those points are true in a good, non-competition studio, without the problems that often come with competitions. And, there are most definitely some excellent studios that do both great training and competitions. Sounds like your experience has been with some really qualified, effective teachers, which is very fortunate. I would expect that the vast majority of kids who study dance will never become professionals, even those with great talent. We all want them to become lovers of dance as adults, so we dance teachers always hope that their teachers put the love and self-expression, and confidence-building first before winning a trophy. I do, and so do the teachers whom I admire the most. A few of these teachers actually do teach competition dance (it’s lucrative for the studios). But the dances are backed by really excellent training. You have to walk the other way when the kids are doing “ballet, jazz, tap, acrobatics and hula” in the same lesson!</p>

<p>I agree with those who feel that SYTYCD has been a big positive for the dance world. Looking forward to Thursday…!</p>

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<p>Here’s the blurb. “Dance Moms” is about halfway down: <a href=“Private Site”>Private Site;

<p>sopranomom, I completely respect what you say and what you do. In 15 years of competition, I never saw anything that could hold a candle to a classically-trained dancer. We chose the competition route for several reasons, not least of which is D’s body type. She doesn’t have the lithe, lyrical body of a ballet dancer; she’s powerful through the hips and thighs, perfectly built for tap, which is her love. She also never aspired to dance professionally, but benefited from the many life-lessons to be learned at any dance studio as missypie listed. And we weren’t a heavy-duty competition studio (only once a year); we were more focused on performing. IMO there’s room for all kinds.</p>

<p>Having said that, for purposes of this thread, I don’t think it makes an iota of difference. Most people watching this show will know nothing about the various forms of dance education. Nor will they know that 99% of competition moms (in my experience) are reasonable, rational, supportive, and good sports. Yes, I’ve run into <em>that</em> mom a few times; we all have. But the uninitiated viewer will assume that what they see is representative of all dance moms. Your studio will be tarred with the same broad brush that mine will be, unfortunately. You deserve better, and so do we.</p>

<p>Why in the world would a mom subject herself and her dancer to this? There’s a lively discussion on another board which has been joined by several of the show participants. They seem to be under the impression that this show is some kind of showcase or talent search, and that this will be their dancer’s big breakthrough. Others have tried to point them to Toddlers and Tiaras, but when you have stars in your eyes, and are willing to exploit your child to get your 15 minutes of fame, I guess there’s just no reasoning with you.</p>

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<p>sopranomom- Let me clarify, I didn’t have my daughter switch to prepro ballet; it was her ballet teacher at her other dance studio that helped my daughter take the leap. Her first dance studio offered ballet, jazz, tap and acro, all of which my daughter took classes in. I am not a girly girl, as a child I would prefer to be in a baseball uniform and wouldn’t be caught dead in a tutu; dance was not my choice, but my daughter’s. While she loved all her dance classes and excelled at each of them, ballet drew her in. At the age of 9 she started taking an additional ballet class at the big ballet school, and the next year switch to all ballet. She missed the jazz and tap, but loved the focus of ballet.</p>

<p>My daughter knew she would not be a professional dancer, but that didn’t stop her from putting in 3 hours a night, 6 days a week, year round. She did want a dance program in college, but did not major in dance. The dance program fell apart at her college and unfortunately she has not dance in 3 years. She talks of going back and taking some adult classes in the city where she now works, but hasn’t done so as of yet. I think she is a bit afraid of starting over again, and will be hard on herself when she can’t dance at the level she left. I know she will try again at some point because it was such a big part of her life.</p>

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<p>I’m not familiar with competitive dance programs. My D took dance in conjunction with rhythmic gymnastics–as she moved up to the higher levels, she gave up dance because she didn’t have time for lessons. Is competitive dance judged? Who makes up the rules? Is there a governing body as in gymnastics (e.g., USA Gymnastics and FIG)? Are there levels of difficulty? I might be wrong, but I’m thinking that competitive dance might be more popular in some parts of the country than others. Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think there are lots of these programs in New England. I haven’t heard of any in my area.</p>

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<p>Yes, there are judges, and yes, dancers are broken down by age/ability as well as discipline; for example, 9-to-10-year-old jazz groups compete against other 9-to-10-year-old jazz groups, but not against 9-to-10-year-old lyrical solos. </p>

<p>There’s a governing body, I think called Federation of Dance Competitions. It’s just been in place a few years, and from what I know, was formed mostly because of a plethora of age-inappropriate choreography, music, and costumes. The FDC is ineffective, as can be seen at any competition. On the show, I’d bet we’ll see some 5-year-olds bumping and grinding in addition to the lunatic moms.</p>

<p>I think there are a multitude of dance competitions all over the country. If you’re not tuned in to that world, though, you’d probably never know it.</p>

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<p>Our girls’ ballet teacher for close to 15 years never allowed her dancers to compete.</p>

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<p>Same here.
Performances 3x a year, rehearsals Sat and Sun prior 6 weeks, ballet classes 6 x-week, pointe class, pas de deux.
All-consuming!!! Lots of life lessons.
Politics, a few overly involved parents. Yup.</p>

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<p>I think it is rare for dance studios in my state (VT) to compete. As I said, our dance studio’s director was against that concept. Our dance studio does have a select repertory troupe. Many styles of dance are taught at our studio. </p>

<p>I am currently advising a student, however, who is heavily involved in dance competitions, as well as a dance team at her public high school (something unheard of at high schools in my region). She lives in FL where I gather dance teams are more prevalent (we don’t even have a football team here anyway).</p>

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<p>My daughter danced with studios that participated in competitions when she was younger (from about age 6-13); she also attended a pre-professional ballet studio and an arts high school, so I pretty much saw everything.</p>

<p>We never took the competition seriously and the only time we ever traveled for a competition was a one-time shot with Youth Grand Prix, which is a ballet-only competition considered to be quite serious. My d. was just there as part of an ensemble, but the competition was sponsored & scouted by a number of top professional ballet programs, and many students (including some from our own ensemble) were offered scholarships to attend various program. The top prize was a contract with ABT. In addition to competing, the girls took class with ABT dancers and participated in a gala performance with ABT dancers – so that was a pretty good experience overall for a 13 year old. </p>

<p>The other competitions really were simply done for fun and absolutely no one took them seriously. The judging was totally arbitrary an erratic, but just about everyone got a ribbon or a trophy. My d. liked the opportunity to dance on stage before an audience of people who were not simply the parents of the kids at her studio, to meet the kids from other studios and other cities and see what they were doing, and whatever feedback she could get from the judging forms. Usually the dancers would get a sheet with judges notes and commentary, and that sometimes was valuable critique. </p>

<p>I never met or saw any overbearing dance moms at competitions – I think that everyone was just too busy with the preparation aspect of things. I think we were more interested in just getting a sense of how our studio compared to others in terms of the quality of dance instruction. </p>

<p>I did see some very overbearing dance mom types at the studios. They were the ones who threw a fit if their daughters weren’t selected for coveted roles at recitals or other performances, or placed in the most advanced classes – and they were also the ones who tended to pull their kids out of whatever studio wasn’t lavishing enough attention on the kid in favor of another studio. Of course they would end up moving again when the next studio didn’t kowtow to their demands. I think there was a lot more opportunity for that sort of maneuvering and backbiting at the studios, as the people who ran the studios were more likely to respond to financial incentives or pressure. A persistent parent can be moderately successful within the studio context – whereas there just isn’t that much room for those sort of machinations at the dance competitions, which were far more impersonal places in terms of any sort of contact between dancers and staff & judges.</p>

<p>My d. stopped competing about 10 years ago, so it’s possible that things have changed somewhat, especially with the popularity of SYTYCD.</p>

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<p>I had a daughter in competition dancing. I’m a little curious what their angle will be. Yes there were pushy parents, just as I found pushy soccer parents, pushy horse parents, pushy orchestra parents…not really new drama there. </p>

<p>The one difference I did see was there was a huge number of very obese moms that I could see how this activity got them there. They would spend lots of weekends at these hotels, never leaving the door because their little dancers might come out to use the restroom and you really don’t want little girls in dance wear wandering some of these convention centers alone. Our studio assigned the assistant teachers to the little girls and emphasized the buddy system so we didn’t have this issue, but for those moms whose daughters went as independents, or with studios that didn’t assign someone to watch them, they were stuck.</p>

<p>The combination of no exercise and only having high calorie food available (which some felt was necessary for the already skinny dancers putting in all that exercise) really didn’t allow a healthy environment for these ladies.</p>

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<p>Our studio really saw the competitions as additional performance venues. Instead of performing a dance one time at recital, why not perform it six times at competitions? I was never ever nervous at a dance awards ceremony because the judging is so arbitray and erratic. The girls would do the same dance the same way…at one competition, they’d be the highest scoring dance of the whole compeititon, at another (same region, same companies there) they wouldn’t even place in the top 10 dances of their category. Can’t ever get upset when the results are like that.</p>

<p>Most of the competitive studios around here don’t even teach ballet (except some in Techinque). The very serious dancers go to the serious ballet studios. (Our top drill team girls tend to drift in the direction of Dallas Cowboy Cheerleader.)</p>

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<p>While our studio does have an annual dance performance (recital), the select dance repertory company (which is only open by audition for HS age) performs their repertoire around the region (thus more than once), but there is no competition. Our dance studio focuses on ballet/pointe, jazz, lyrical/modern, tap, and hip hop mostly (my kids took all of these). Actually there was a select tap dance troupe too that both Ds were in, but again, none of this is to compete.</p>

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<p>That’s pretty much how it was at my d’s studios. I used to like the fact that my d. would get some extra wear out of all those dumb costumes we ended up buying. We’d have to buy them for the recital anyway, so the competition wasn’t adding to the cost. The studio that did the most in the way of competition also often looked for venues such as shopping malls or local school fairs where the students could perform – so the goal really was to find a lot of performance opportunities in many venues. </p>

<p>The competition thing was also the way that kids met students from other studios, and also how kids kept up with one another after they had moved on. My d. stopped competing in high school, but she would sometimes go to competitions with her friends who were still competing, and when she came home she would always be able to give me updates on kids I hadn’t seen in years.</p>

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<p>That’s a good point. Even though four middle schools feed into our HS, many of the dancers already knew each other from dance studios by the time they got to HS drill team. They also know girls at neighboring schools.</p>

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<p>Bromfield, there are a lot of competition studios and competions in New England - I had 10 years of experience with it. Do a google search for American Dance Awards, Headliners, Star Power, Dance Masters of America, Starquest, New York City Dance Alliance, Dance Explosion… and that’s just off the top of my head.</p>

<p>Our studio owner was pretty good about keeping the moms in line. She sent out a memo every year saying that she never wanted to see a mom yelling at a dancer at a competition. Her mantra was, “I’ve never known a kid to mess up on purpose.” In 10 years of competition I only heard her yell at a group of girls after a dance once - because she thought they just weren’t focusing. The last thing the teachers said before the girls went onstage was always, “Have fun!” </p>

<p>That said, our studio may have been the exception. We had a few over-the-top moms, but they were usually moms of the younger kids. By the time the girls hit middle and high school, the moms were jaded and kind of burnt out. “There’s always another competition,” that was my motto!</p>

<p>A lot of people thought my daughter was older than she was in 4th - 9th grades, because she carried herself with such poise and grace. It was all that time in the studio and at the ballet barre that did it, I’m convinced! She was a bridesmaid at a cousin’s wedding when she was 14, and she was the only bridesmaid who smiled all the way down the aisle and didn’t fidget when she stood up front. Dance taught her to be able to stand still, with good posture, and not look stiff. It’s actually a skill.</p>

<p>My D LOVED going to competitions and sitting and watching other dancers and other studios. I think she learned a lot that way. She certainly learned appreciation for a wide variety of music - Broadway tunes, classic jazz songs, lyrical songs, modern, classical…</p>