<p>Your point about humor is well taken, scarf, but a study that claims that up to 15% of college men have been raped has exposed its own flank in that regard. What EK4 described has nothing to do with college studies describing an “unwanted sexual experience” that wasn’t reported “because it was no big deal.” What she described was rape. Period. A very big deal, but diminished by anonymous studies that equate a regretted sexual encounter with rape. That’s the point of what I posted.</p>
<p>I do see your point- that some of the reports may be from students who felt pressured to have sex, made a bad decision because of substance abuse that they later regretted, but I still think there is a very big concern with how we view sexual contact.
a few months ago you might remember someone who I remember as a fairly regular poster admitted to having sex with a 14 year old girl who was falling down drunk ( the poster was in college) and afterward the girls father or uncle was threatening charges. He really didn’t understand that what he did was wrong, he seemed to think that because she was “coming on to him” even though he admitted she was falling down drunk, that it was ok to have sex with her.
Unfortunately, I dont think that is that unusual. Middle school kids don’t think oral sex is “sex”, they see reality tv shows on free tv that imply all sorts of sexual behavior, add hormones to the belief that there is something wrong with you if you aren’t getting any, and a lot of otherwise very nice boys, can be very agressive.</p>
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<p>I happen to disagree with you. I think that boys who have been educated at home about what consent is and what invalidates consent and what is violence…these all lead to nice boys who know what the law is. I don’t see that drunks girls are a justification for breaking what a guy knows is the law. I don’t see that underage girls are a reason so break the law…</p>
<p>What I do see are many parents who don’t inform much less talk about all of these issues at an early age…build the knowledge and discuss scenarios. I see that this is lacking in our culture. That is what I see.</p>
<p>I guess I should have qualified it as boys who otherwise seem very nice- the boys that beat a friend to death at a local high school- could be described as “nice” but obviously we don’t always know what is going on in their head.</p>
<p>THe boys that assualted me in junior high were considered" nice" by the school, they had parents that were fairly involved, coached sports teams etc, popular in the school ( I wasn’t technically raped- no penetration)</p>
<p>A boy that in high school was in my larger group of aquaintances, had behavior issues, but more for being mouthy than anything physical,( he then was sent to a Catholic boys school) but he ended up going to prison for beating a robbery victim to death.
I am sure his mother thought he was a “nice” boy.</p>
<p>There also are boys who would never rape what they consider a “nice” girl, but see other girls who they possibly see as “leading them on” or not worthy of the same consideration as other women.
A British 2001 crime survey revealed that 1/3 believe that if a women flirts she is partially responsible if she is then later raped.</p>
<p>So we could probably agree that law breakers are nice until they break the law at which point they become criminals…</p>
<p>well you must admit isn’t that what they said about Ted Bundy?
Even Ann Rice who later wrote a book about him, befriended him when they worked together
Not everyone looks like Charles Manson</p>
<p>EK, I think you’re straying from the topic here. Granted, Ted Bundy was a very handsome man but he kidnapped, raped, and murdered women. Manson was apparently considered very attractive by his concubine/accomplices-in-murder. The earlier point raised was simply about people who have sex, and then regret it, for whatever reason. The (unspoken) reference to “beer goggles”–whether worn by males or females-- isn’t really germane to your personal rape, or to Bundy/Manson types.</p>
<p>I think it is relevant because people that others think are “nice” are just as likely to be “not so nice”
I am concerned about young people getting in situations where they aren’t safe,whether because they are careless because they think they “know” them, whether because they are attractive and it is the bad guys in movies that are ugly, or because they make bad decisions because they have been drinking- that is why I started the thread- because young people are careless about their behavior
Whether or not a few posters speculation that the survey results had been exagerated by those who later felt guilty isn’t relevant to the real issue of personal rights and responsibilities</p>
<p>“So we could probably agree that law breakers are nice until they break the law at which point they become criminals…”</p>
<p>I think you’ve got it exactly. I read the WSU report this afternoon, and their numbers on female rapes conform to every other survey I have ever seen for rape on heavy drinking campuses (in case you didn’t know, WSU is one.) It is true that the rape data cannot be confirmed by experimental data (as has been done repeatedly with the Wechsler alcohol/drug surveys); however, most surveys of rape have found substantial police underreporting (like 20 to 1) even after the legal definition of rape is made clear to the survey population.</p>
<p>Take the situation off college campuses. Men get drunk, find acquaintances, and rape 'em. Not often, but too often. When it happens off campus, and is reported, the perps occasionally end up in prison - but more often than if they were on a college campus. Of the 1 in 20 which are reported to police, perhaps half of them will be investigated. Of those, half will be charged with a sex crime, of which, maybe, one in five won’t have the charges bargained down to something below a rape charge.</p>
<p>But they’re not criminals until they’re convicted, even if they break the law.</p>
<p>I think that many of us boomer parents, products of feminism, didn’t put a great emphasis on warning our daughters about sexual predators. I recall my mother saying “boys that age are only out for one thing,” which was a fairly ridiculous overstatement, and I certainly didn’t want to repeat it to my D, but it did serve to make me a little cautious.
I am concerned about today’s college girls drinking in great excess and leaving themselves vulnerable to the small minority of guys that will take advantage . . .there just doesn’t seem to be any caution, and there should be . . . That said, I certainly don’t have many answers.</p>
<p>“there just doesn’t seem to be any caution, and there should be . . . That said, I certainly don’t have many answers”</p>
<p>I don’;t believe this is true. My 17 yr. daughter was told by a soph. girl during a college visit that “the boys seem very nice but you need to watch out when they drink…” She was not fooling around - most girls today I feel are much more aware of what “nice” boys can do - they talk about these
things which my generation (I’m over 50) did not. We were much more
trusting . She goes to an all girls school & they do watch out for each
other, don’t know if this makes a difference .</p>
<p>Freshmen during orientation are required to attend a sexual harrassment/date rape seminar at D’s college. There are posters all over campus about it, and the school even has special counselors to help. They help the victim and aid in the criminal prosecution of anyone who victimizes another student.</p>