Dangerous situation- what would you do?

Parent Cafe
1

<p>My DH and I went out for a stroll this evening, as it was Cinco de Mayo and a huge, spectacular full moon was looming, so we sauntered up to the nearby shopping center to listen to the music playing in an outdoor tent at the mexican restaurant there. Afterward, as we walked toward the crosswalk to head home, we walked in front of another restaurant, where several of their staff were standing outside the door watching a clearly VERY intoxicated patron stumble across the major 6 lane road, into oncoming (fortunately not terribly heavy) traffic. Apparently the gentleman had just relieved himself in front of the row of parked cars, and then started to wander into the road. When he tripped on the raised center median and almost fell into the road, my husband bolted into the street to his assistance and guided him safely across and into a nearby Waffle House to get coffee. </p>

<p>When I saw that they were safe and my heart stopped pounding a mile a minute, I thought about what had just happened, and the fact that the waitstaff stood and watched him but did nothing, allowing him to wander into harms way, potentially causing harm to himself and to occupants of oncoming cars. </p>

<p>Much to my DH’s chagrin, I decided to go into the restaurant and have a little cordial chat with the manager. Here is my question:</p>

<p>The manager said that the gentleman had apparently had been drinking before he got there, yet they did in fact serve him but watered down his drink (or 2, according ot the waitstaff outside) and tried to stall and keep him there as long as possible. They were prepared to call the police if he had gotten into a car, but he did not, and they thought that they could not “restrain” him, so let him wander into harms way. That seemed to be their focus-- that they could not touch him or he could accuse them of restraining him (and I supose claim assault, if he even remembered). </p>

<p>I said that I hold a professional license, and though I may be wrong, it is my understanding that, like with my license, there is a responsibility of that restaurant, who also holds a license, to protect the public, which includes both the intoxicated patron and the drivers on the road. The manager kept focusing on not “restraining” him, so didn’t want to “touch” him. I suggested that one of their wait staff could have accompanied him without touching him, across the street, or if need be they could catch him as he fell, and help him, as my DH did, as they would be helping him IN GOOD FAITH. It is my expectation that if he did try to sue for any kind of “assault” or whatever he’d claim if they touched him, that we’d all have been witnesses (there was another couple out there too who watched this in horror) and any claim would likely have been quickly tossed. </p>

<p>I suppose he could have taken a swing at someone if they tried to touch him (which he did not- he was very “friendly” and appreciative of my DH’s help). But my concern is that they let this man walk into harms way. I let them know that if they had tried to aid him and he claimed otherwise, I’d have been a strong witness for them. But, if something had happened to my husband in his attempt to aid this man, they would NOT have been happy, as I would have been their worst enemy. </p>

<p>I am not an attorney, but I work with attorneys frequently and I serve on several Bar committees, so I know probably just enough to be dangerous. So am I wrong in my perception that they did not do enough, as they think they did? Even though he was off their property he was still clearly intoxicated and was potentially at risk to himself or could cause an accident if people tried to swerve to avoid him, and that the restaurant would have been liable. </p>

<p>Opinions? Any attorneys out there? I was calm and polite and took it as an opportunity to educate the manager that he could have handled it, and his staff, better. Am I wrong?</p>

<p>The manager offered to buy us a dinner on the house. We politely declined and headed home.</p>

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<p>Same Field as you. Not attorney. I just want to say that both you and hubby are wonderful people. The Good Samaritan law would have protected their staff for trying to help this man. They could have called a taxi to take him home. They had several better options than watching him walk away drunk and cognitively impaired.</p>

3

<p>Thanks, bookworm. I didn’t think of the good samaritan law, but my DH brought it up as we walked home and he asked what earful I gave the manager :slight_smile: I did tell the manager that in my office (some are there for several hours) I don’t let them eat peanuts in the testing room as someone else might be allergic. Again- its to protect others. They understand.</p>

4

<p>Good for you! I have no idea what the ins and outs of the law are, but a restaurant/bar really ought to know. I’d think at the very least they could call the non-emergency police line and ask what they are supposed to do.</p>

5

<p>Think how different your evening would have been had you seen Mr. big Fun get creamed as he stumbled across the street. I am often amazed at how people don’t look at consequences for doing nothing. Good job, Jim and DH.</p>

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<p>Believe me I DID think about what could have happened. Mr. Big Fun (AKA “whizzed-in-the-grass”) could have been smushed or there could have been a multi car pile-up of cars trying to avoid him, or my DH could have been creamed as well. All flash through my all-to-active imagination.</p>

<p>Ironically, we were supposed to go to the movies tonight, but I splattered black bean sauce on my white pants and sweater at dinner, so came home after dinner to wash them off instead of heading to the movies. Oh my what an evening it turned out to be.</p>

<p>I wonder if he’s still at the Waffle House drinking coffee? No idea how he got to the restaurant as he apparently told them he didnt have a car. Sure he could have walked like we did-- who knows.</p>

7

<p>I asked my daughter who just until recently worked at a nice restaurant which served alcohol; they had ongoing alcohol education training in her job. She said the restaurant’s responsibility is that they should not have served him ANY more alcohol, watered down or not.</p>

<p>She said if someone in their restaurant was obviously too intoxicated to drive and/or walk, they would call a cab.</p>

8

<p>The manager talked about having the cab company on speed dial, but I dont know why he didnt call them.</p>

9

<p>A similar situation happened in my neighborhood yesterday afternoon. It was unexpected, we have a very quiet neighborhood, no businesses nearby. I saw a man lying mostly on the sidewalk, with his feet in the road, his bike lying on top of him. I pulled over, and went over to him. He was obviously drunk, a derelict, unwashed, mumbling mess. I took the bike off of him and asked him if he was okay. He was completely impossible to understand. Two cars and a pedestrian came over, and we all tried to ask him if he was hurt, where he lived, his name, etc. When he tried (unsuccessfully) to stand up, we called 911 and told him we were going to get him some help.</p>

<p>What really struck me, was that even though this guy was obviously a drunken nut, everyone treated him with respect and care to keep him safe. We made sure he didn’t go anywhere, go into the road, or hurt himself. The EMT’s treated him with such respect it was surprising. When the police officer came over, he yelled out, “Hey Bernard, how are you doing?” Which relieved us all, because we couldn’t even get the guys name from him, and the officer obviously knew him well. It was also great that it took them less than 5 minutes to show up for such a minor situation. I don’t know if we would have all paid such attention if this was happening downtown, unless they guy was obviously in danger. But in our neighborhood, we weren’t going to let anyone get hurt.</p>

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<p>Right, technically and ethically the bar did not act responsibly. The “Dram Shop” laws refer to serving to the clearly impaired who then cause 3rd party damage. Some states have provisions for intoxicated folks who then are themselves injured. You do have the option of reporting this to the state or local “beverage control” bureau. I’m not an attorney, just used to work in alcohol related social research.</p>

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<p>Yes, the bar should not serve someone who is that drunk. That would have been the best solution. They <em>could</em> be prosecuted, but it never seems to happen. Drunk people leave bars in droves; it’s not really feasible to hold bars responsible for any drunk person who happens to get into trouble. And really, the drunk guy did it to himself. You really can’t blame anyone else. Once you start trying to blame other people, why not blame the cars whizzing by that did not stop in this unpredictable situation? And how many patrons are the employees expected to escort across the street? I mean, this guy sounds like he needs a constant babysitter.</p>

<p>It would have been nice, though, if people had tried to keep him off the street before he got into that situation, and then maybe called 911.</p>

<p>By the way, here’s one of my favorite websites about alcohol poisoning - it’s packed with information.
brad21 (we know what goes here) org
Somewhere I read that coffee could be harmful to drunk people (accelerating the alcohol absorption or something? not sure) - but it won’t sober the person up, and might increase their dehydration.</p>

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<p>I don’t plan to call the authorities. I can only hope the manager and his waitstaff learned something last night.</p>

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<p>Good for you and your dh for noticing what was going on and choosing to get involved, especially since you weren’t legally obligated. I’m amazed the restaurant seemed to feel no real responsibility. Even if the drunken guy didn’t attempt to drive, I’d have thought the Dram Shop laws would hold the staff at least partially accountable if he had been injured or killed. And, of course, he could have caused a serious accident by wandering onto a major road, even if he somehow escaped injury.</p>

<p>This manager and his staff need to be brought up to speed.</p>

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<p>It’s one thing for a drunk to leave a restaurant or bar and stumble into oncoming traffic relatively unobserved. It’s quite another for several employees of said establishment standing there watching him do it and do nothing.</p>

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<p>My DH will probably be quite embarassed when he discovers I’ve talked about this. But I am proud that he potentially saved this guy’s life. The evening could have been quite different if I hadn’t splattered duck sauce on my outfit and we had made it to the movies as originally planned. We’d have been nowhere near where this fella was.</p>

16

<p>I’d file a complaint with the Alcoholic Beverages Commission. This wasn’t a minor peccadillo, it could easily been the death of the man, and an incredible trauma for any driver who hit him. Our ABC routinely pulls liquor licenses for a day or two or three for restaurants that are caught in the much less dangerous failure to check the id of a minor. While you’d hope that the manager/staff learned something from what they saw Saturday night, I’m afraid that what they saw was that it didn’t matter that they didn’t do the right thing, because someone else did. You and your husband did a great job – but I’d be shocked to learn that this was the first time that this particular establishment served someone who was already clearly inebriated.</p>

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<p>I would have called the police–no matter what! Couldn’t he be arrested for public intoxication?</p>

<p>Just this week have there been two VERY serious incidences with regards to alcohol. Never again will I ignore a situation that appears to be dangerous … if police choose to ignore, at least I would have tried to prevent something serious.</p>

18

<p>Synchronicity.<br>
Brave man. Did the right thing.</p>

<p>I’m with calling ABC- believe it can be anonymous. In some areas, they make routine stops at bars in their turf, mostly to maintain contact and update about regs; in others, it could be based on an issue such as this. I’m afraid a manager who could make excuses to you and offer a free dinner doesn’t get it. But, this is your decision. Even across the CC miles, I am proud of your DH. And you, for speaking up.</p>

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<p>I don’t believe this bar could be prosecuted(at least, not successfully) as what may have happened days ago is too hard to prove. It is so easy for the bar to <em>check their records</em> and say they didn’t serve him alcohol. In my state, it used to be the last place a guy went(that served booze) was responsible for any of his actions afterward whether they sold him booze or not. No longer true, but now a bar cannot “knowingly serve a visibly intoxicated person”. What can be tough for a bar is -visibly intoxicated. Is he falling off a bar stool? Grabbing at waittress? Slurring words? Plenty of people don’t show such obvious signs. but those are generalizations based on my state’s laws. Some people feel morally it is the patron’s responsibility for how drunk he gets, as an adult, not the bar’s fault for serving what he orders.</p>

<p>Not only do I suspect “assault” is a legal risk for a well-intentioned helper but what about accusations of theft if he lost his wallet? Or what if despite help- he still had been in an accident- might he accuse the helper of causing it? What if the drunk had been a woman- might there be accusations of sexual impropriety?</p>

<p>In Jym’s case, I think it’s tough to determine a bar’s responsibility. To me, it is not clear cut. Call a cab? Who pays? Call police? Before he was unruly? But serve any drinks- even watered down? NO WAY! Serve him non-alcohol or better yet, no service.
My compliments to Jym for caring to get him to Waffle House. Too bad for Waffle House for having to deal with yet another drunk.</p>

20

<p>Appreciate all the comments. I don’t think I’ll call the ABC, thought I understand the reasoning behind it. We did what we needed to do in the heat of the situation. I would not have been happy with myself if I hadn’t talked to the manager and explained the gravity of the situation. I told my DH that if I hadn’t gone in when I did I’d have stewed about it all the way home and would probably have called the restaurant from my cellphone. I wouldn’t do nothing, but I feel that what my DH and I did was enough at this point.</p>