Dartmouth vs UC Berkeley

College Search & Lists
1

<p>Another poster asked me to do a comparison of these two schools. </p>

<p>O B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>

<p>UNDERGRADUATE ENROLLMENT<br>
Dartmouth 4085 UC Berkeley 23,863</p>

<p>% AND # OF STUDENTS WHO ARE IN-STATE<br>
Dartmouth 3% (123) UC Berkeley 93% (22,193)</p>

<p>% OF FEMALE STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 51% UC Berkeley 54%</p>

<p>% OF WHITE/NON-HISPANIC STUDENTS<br>
Dartmouth 59% UC Berkeley 29%</p>

<p>% FROM PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS<br>
Dartmouth 61% UC Berkeley 85%</p>

<p>% OF STUDENTS IN GREEK LIFE (Male & Female)
Dartmouth 38%/38% UC Berkeley 10%/10%</p>

<p>TOP MAJORS AT EACH SCHOOL (acc to collegeboard.com)
Dartmouth 30% Social Sciences, 10% Psychology, 9% History, 8% Foreign Language, 6% English, 5% Engineering, 5% Biology, 5% Physical Sciences, 5% Visual & Performing Arts, 5% Area & Ethnic Studies
UC Berkeley 20% Social Sciences, 13% Engineering, 10% Biology, 6% English, 5% Business & Marketing, 5% Psychology, 5% Inter-Disciplinary Studies</p>

<p>IS & OOS COST (Tuition & Fees)<br>
Dartmouth $ 35,288 UC Berkeley $ 6,654
Dartmouth $ 35,288 UC Berkeley $ 25,338 </p>

<p>TOTAL COLLEGE ENDOWMENT AND PER CAPITA (undergrad and grad)
Dartmouth $3.092 bn ($537,476) UC Berkeley $5.73 Bn ($170,857)</p>

<p>AVERAGE HIGH/LOW IN FEBRUARY<br>
Dartmouth 34-12 UC Berkeley 59-46</p>

<p>GRADUATION RATES<br>
-% OF STUDENTS EXPECTED TO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:
Dartmouth 93% UC Berkeley 90%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO DO GRADUATE IN 6 YEARS:
Dartmouth 93% UC Berkeley 87%
-% OF STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE IN 4 YEARS:
Dartmouth 84% UC Berkeley 58%</p>

<p>FACULTY RESOURCES<br>
-% OF CLASSES WITH <20 STUDENTS
Dartmouth 64% UC Berkeley 59%
-% OF CLASSES WITH 50+ STUDENTS
Dartmouth 10% UC Berkeley 15%
-FACULTY/STUDENT RATIO<br>
Dartmouth 8/1 UC Berkeley 15/1</p>

<p>STUDENT SELECTIVITY<br>
-% ACCEPTANCE RATE<br>
Dartmouth 16% UC Berkeley 24%
-SAT/ACT RANGE (Middle 50%)<br>
Dartmouth 1350-1550 UC Berkeley 1200-1450
-% OF STUDENTS RANKING IN TOP 10% IN HS CLASS
Dartmouth 90% UC Berkeley 99%
% OF STUDENTS WITH HS GPA > 3.75 (Unweighted)
Dartmouth 62% UC Berkeley na</p>

<h1>OF NMS FINALISTS IN 2005 (% of student body)</h1>

<pre><code>Dartmouth 69 (6.72%) UC Berkeley 53 (.90%)
</code></pre>

<h1>OF 1500 STUDENTS ENROLLED (% of student body)</h1>

<pre><code>Dartmouth 1486 (36%) UC Berkeley 3668 (16%)
</code></pre>

<p>ALUMNI GIVING %<br>
Dartmouth 50% UC Berkeley 14%</p>

<p>S U B J E C T I V E D A T A </p>

<p>PEER ASSESSMENT<br>
Dartmouth 4.4 UC Berkeley 4.7</p>

2

<p>Uh, how does Berkeley have 99% of its students in the top 10% of its class, but also 25% of its students with less than a 1200?</p>

<p>Do Cali schools just really suck?</p>

3

<p>National Academy members</p>

<p>UCB -212
Dartmouth - 12</p>

4

<p>Dartmouth ($537,476), UC Berkeley ($170,857)</p>

5

<p>What about % of Nobel Prize winners that teach undergrad classes, or % of National Academy of Science members who enjoy teaching 12 person undergrad seminars…</p>

<p>Whats more satisfying? Speaking with a professor who decided to teach instead of do research, or watching a Nobel Prize winner walk by you without a glance. I know my choice.</p>

6

<p>State Funding–UCB $500 Million
Dartmouth–$0.</p>

7

<p>Dartmouth 1/6 the size of UCB undergrad and 1/8 when you include grad. That 500M doesn’t come close to closing the gap in size or tuition funds, and much of it is spent on graduate benefits not undergrad. </p>

<p>UNDERGRAD focus is the relevant criteria and Dartmouth excels in this area. It spends far more per student on advising and grants than any other Ivy (COHE) and Cal doesn’t even compare in this regard. Dartmouth has the best recruiting outside of HYPSM when you look at elite consulting and finance. It places its grads into top schools at a far greater rate than Cal. Its students are better, and its professors are focused on teaching. It has alumni loyalty and an alumni network that you’ll never understand.</p>

8

<p>My oppinion.</p>

<p>Cal has better weather
cal is a much better price, esp. if in state.
Both have world recognition (cal a little moreso, since Cal is pretty much the headquarters of revolutionary science…AKA the Nuke)</p>

<p>As for which is better for undergrad education, i would say neither. Dartmouth has great, and more personal education than Cal. Cal just kinda throws you in the water and its either tread water or drown.</p>

<p>It mostly depends on what kind of person you are for which one will give you a better education.</p>

<p>As for Cal having 99% of students being in top 10% of class, i heard they do something with all students in california for it.
So instead of looking at the top 10% of class at an individual nmber, they add the number of seniors together, or some random thing.</p>

<p>Anyway, i heard that whole thing is not reliable at all, but whatever.</p>

9

<p>It should be noted that transfers make up a large percentage and absolute number of the undergraduate students at UC Berkeley. I suspect that their inclusion in the student profile would lower their % of Top 10% students and lower their 25/75 SAT range.</p>

<p>For the record, last year UC Berkeley accepted 3096 transfers (equal to 74% of the size of their entering class). Dartmouth accepted 43 (equal to 4% of their entering class).</p>

10

<p>it also should be noted that full pay at a UC could still mean significant finaid at Dartmouth (and other Ivies) bringing down the cost of attendance to that of a UC.</p>

11

<p>Speaking as a Dartmouth > Berkeley transfer… uhhh, nearly 30 years ago… I found Berkeley a much more serious, intellectually stimulating place. Dartmouth was all about outdoor sports and frat parties (late 70s).</p>

12

<p>Hawkette, Cal’s endowment isn’t $5.7 Billion, it is $2.2 Billion. $5.7 Billion is the endowment of the ENTIRE UC system, uncluding UCB, UCLA, UCSF and UCSD.</p>

13

<p>

These stats fail to capture a key consideration: who actually teaches the classes? I don’t have current UC statistics, but in 1998, the breakdown was [url=<a href=“http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1998/11/30feature2.html]estimated[/url”>http://www.salon.com/it/feature/1998/11/30feature2.html]estimated[/url</a>] as follows:

I doubt that this situation has improved since then. In comparison, I would expect the utilization of grad students and adjuncts at Dartmouth to be very low.</p>

14

<p>Alexandre,
Thanks for the correction. Do you know the full breakdown of the endowment for all of UC schools? I’d like to correct my assumptions on their per capita numbers.</p>

<p>Corbett,
That was good stuff on the role of TAs. This information is potentially of great importance to anyone considering the school. While TAs aren’t necessarily poor teachers, I think that most of us would prefer to have small classes taught by professors rather than large classes taught by TAs.</p>

15

<p>Dartmouth is significantly more prestigious for undergrad. Cal is more well known overall though.</p>

16

<p>Alexandre: actually, last I read, Berkeley’s endowment was $2.4.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_1312_brief.php[/url]”>http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/college/directory/brief/drglance_1312_brief.php&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>At any rate, many of these metrics are still rather pointless.</p>

17

<p>Berkeley = graduate school (Phd)</p>

18

<p>Kyledavid, the $2.2 billion figure I listed above was from was the official Cal endowment figure effective July 2006, which is the last time all universities reported their endowment values.</p>

<p><a href=“http://metrics.vcbf.berkeley.edu/calstats.pdf[/url]”>http://metrics.vcbf.berkeley.edu/calstats.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Hawkette, here’s the endowment breakdown by UC campuses as of July 2006:</p>

<p>Cal: $2,200,000,000
UCLA: $1,900,000,000
UCD: $650,000,000
UCSF: $400,000,000
UCSD: $350,000,000
UCSB: $225,000,000
UCI: $200,000,000
UCR: $160,000,000
UCSC: $160,000,000
UCM: Doesn’t really have an endowment at this stage.</p>

<p>Total is roughly equal to $6,100,000,000.</p>

<p>At any rate, comparing Cal and Dartmouth is very difficult because they are complete opposites, but to assume that one is better than the other without considering the relevant criteria is foolish. Cal and Dartmouth are both top 10 or top 15 undergraduate institutions. No highly regarded intellectual or corporate recruiter would think otherwise, nor would most highly educated people. In more practical terms, Dartmouth offers incredibly personalized attention whereas Cal offers incredible variety and access to cutting edge research and developments. And they have very different spheres of influence. On the East Coast, Dartmouth would probably have an edge over Cal. On the West Coast, I would say that Cal probably has the advantage. Everywhere else in the US, those two universities have equal reputations (I always refer to the educated elites mond you, otherwise the edge is highly in favor of Cal). Internationally, Cal is one of the top 5 or 6 names in education, Dartmouth is not quite as well known, even among the educated elites.</p>

19

<p>As for TAs teaching at Cal, they also teach a great deal at Columbia, Cornell, Harvard, Michigan and Penn. I don’t see the problem. Those PhD candidates are the world’s most brilliant minds. They may be younger and not quite as experienced as established professors, but in mnay instances, they are just as brilliant and able, if not more so, than established faculty members at most universities.</p>

20

<p>These days even the elite schools use adjuncts or TA’s to teach low level language and writing classes as well as supervising lab work and the like. I’m sure you will find many in the Dartmouth course listings and dept directories.</p>