Daughter Can't Drive

Parent Cafe
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<p>Yes, just logged back on. D definitely good at taking instruction. Generally calm, not the “flip out” type. She definitely seems anxious. Last night her BF was over for dinner and we needed to drive him home - about three miles away. He’s a year older, at a JC, and does not drive either. (Not the greatest role model.) D volunteered to drive him home. In the dark. I hesitated, but she pressed me to do it, so I let her. It was a bit harrowing, but she did ok. Usual problem of slowing down at intersections even though light was green, trouble turning around in the parking lot of his apartment building, etc., but we made it back safe and sound. She was pretty proud of herself.</p>

<p>No, I’m not worried about her driving in Chicago. She won’t have a car. I’ve checked out the public transportation there and on paper it looks good. We’re going to visit in a few weeks (not renting a car) and plan to ride the Metra to campus from our downtown hotel.</p>

<p>I’m not going to worry about the permit expiring next month, but I do plan to make a push for her to keep practicing and take the road test once or twice before she leaves for school next September. If she can get her license before heading off to school, that would be an awesome accomplishment, even if she won’t be driving when she’s away at school.</p>

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Heck, even a one-car household is limiting, as I found out the last 14 months. The engine on our second car threw a rod durning Superstorm Sandy and we were not in a position to replace it. Since I don’t need a car at work and we live in the one area of West Virginia with viable public transportation, we bit the bullet for a while. We managed, but there were many times when one of us was on “house arrest” because the other absolutely had to have the car. We also got rentals a a couple of times, as when H had to go out of town for a funeral. That ended last week when we purchased a second car (just in time, too, since it’s a 4X4) and I didn’t realize how much I missed a second car until we had one again.</p>

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<p>It’s great that she volunteered and you let her. It really sounds like she is just scared, and it is really easy to screw up your maneuvering when you are trying to overthink because you are nervous. The more she practices, the less nervous she will be and the more second nature driving will become. </p>

<p>I know when I was a new driver, I slowed down a bit even though the light was green-- I was nervous that cars would come through anyway (what if the light changes RIGHT THIS SECOND!?) and my drivers ed instructor would dock points if we didn’t pointedly turn our heads and look both ways before going through. Managing that maneuver confidently and without slowing down unless something is actually wrong took some practice. I had a few other weird driving quirks, I think all new drivers do. I liked to hug the outside of the lane, when we were driving down residental streets my mom would get upset because she said people would think I was trying to park. I don’t know when I stopped doing it, but I did. Practice makes perfect. So much of a new driver’s experience comes from nerves or lack or nerves-- but it is better, I think, to be a bit too nervous than not nervous enough!</p>

<p>It is always okay for her to get that license now if she can and then not drive until she practices with you more when she’s home from college if that is what makes the both of you comfortable. It’s also okay to keep renewing that permit and take the test later. Whatever it takes! It sounds to me like she will get this with practice. And if she falls in love with Chicago and never wants to leave, at least she’ll always know she was capable of learning to drive and can do it if she ever needs to. As someone who struggled with learning too, it really is a confidence boost to know I could do it, too. Especially since I do live in an area where most everybody drives, being able to do it was really part of feeling like a real adult for me – even though I avoid it wherever possible!</p>

<p>We’ve used metra a lot when visiting Chicago and I love it. I’ve used the buses, too, there are great apps where you can put in where you want to go and it pinpoints your location and gives you walking GPS instructions to the bus stop you need for the correct line, and it tracks the buses route to your stop so you can know for sure when to get off the bus. It’s very nice.</p>

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<p>But that’s just it…most people who don’t want to or can’t drive will not choose to live in the country. My “walkability” criteria since I have had kids include the ability to walk somewhere for bread and milk. I would just feel out of control if I had to rely on a car for that. Every house I have owned has met that criterion. I would never just find myself living in the country, because that lifestyle–including all the driving, especially on windy roads in the winter–does not appeal to me.</p>

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<p>Here’s another new reason to try to get her licensed while still under your parental wing. Who do you think will practice drive with her, and how will she borrow a car for practice, after college graduation?</p>

<p>Once she’s finished college, she can pick out a city and job with public transpo in mind. My D did that. But, situations change often for twenty-somethings. </p>

<p>Specifically, a year later our D’s public transpo plan fell apart. Her workplace downsized, and the new job wasn’t walkable/bikable. She needed to grab a job ASAP to meet rent, which was time-urgent. So she allowed herself to take a job in the near suburb because her roommate offered to chauffeur her to work in exchange for her doing a list of weekly errands for him. (Resourceful, commendable adaptation in that barter, IMHO).</p>

<p>Then HIS situation changed. He decided to work more from home and told her he’d rather lend her the car than chauffeur her. To make that happen, he offered to teach and practice drive with her, on his car. We offered her money for professional driving lessons in her city, but she wouldn’t take it. Also she preferred the calm presence of this roommate to grouchier professional teachers, which indicates poor judgment on her part. But at age 24, you can’t make them do anything. You can offer and try to persuade, but it’s all their call by that age. </p>

<p>Soon, we came to learn he had poor judgment as a driving teacher, although he’s a good driver. And he had no car insurance. THis we discovered suddenly when she called for advance money to repay after a small accident: a scrunched fender/sidepanel. That it happened while she exited a highway concerned me, so I asked why were they practicing on a highway? He saw she was too hesitant driving in-city, so was trying to help her gain confidence by letting her “open up” by driving a stretch of 65 mph road. Unfortunately, he didn’t think to preteach her how to slow down safely from high speeds at the sharp curve of a highway exit ramp. </p>

<p>Obviously, that’s one sorry story, but demonstrates how 20-somethings living elsewhere will need a car and driving buddy for practice. That’s when they turn to their friends, who are not experienced at teaching driving but believe they can because they are good drivers. In our D’s situation, when she moved back home again and worked nearby, we provided the needed car and practice presence until she got licensed at age 26.</p>

<p>This story also demonstrates how job changes, often frequent in the 20-something decade, make your D’s path unpredictable. Even if she commits to moving to a city with good public transpo, as my D did, new variables might cause her to change jobs or neighborhoods quickly. If she already has the license, she knows she can take a new job requiring a car. Otherwise, she has to decline that job or seek out a friend in her city who is old enough to be the legal presence during practice driving, and who is willing to put his car at risk while she learns on it.</p>

<p>Now D is in graduate school in NYC. She said she can’t yet tell if her career will be in NYC or somewhere else in the nation. But she’s glad to have the license ahead of that decision point.</p>

<p>OP - a suggestion: check if you can get your D licensed before taking her onto highway/freeway. In our state, they only test neighborhood driving skills. After licensed, you can begin to teach her on highways.</p>

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<p>Sally, I understand that many people do not want to live in the country. But young people do not know where life will take them. I guess I feel that knowing how to drive opens up a lot of opportunities to people. That doesn’t mean everyone needs to know. By the way, I would feel out of control if I couldn’t drive. I like be in charge of my own transportation be it walking, biking or driving. If flying was more economical, maybe I would learn to fly. :)</p>

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<p>Taking and failing the test is not as educational as it might seem, in some instances.</p>

<p>In our community, if you take the test and fail on one of the maneuvers, the test is immediately stopped, and the tester drives the car back to the starting point. You don’t get a chance to experience the rest of the test.</p>

<p>This is an argument in favor of working with an instructor from a driving school shortly before taking the test. Driving school instructors are familiar with the entire test.</p>

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<p>She is probably slowing down as she approaches green lights because she’s afraid it will turn yellow and she doesn’t know how to judge whether to go through or try to stop if it does. My daughter was like that too. I had that same fear as a new driver so I would choose a point- a sign or landmark, as I approached a light and determine if it was still green when I got to that point, I was going no matter what. If it turned yellow at that point, I would stop. Help her identify that point as she’s driving. Then gradually have her identify the point and eventually, she’ll do it naturally. You can also teach her how to use cues. I love the new “walk” lights that show how many seconds a pedestrian has to get through the intersection. It helps me know when that light is turning yellow. </p>

<p>With maneuvering in parking lots, just find an empty one- the high school on Sunday was good for us- and have her do figure 8s backwards, go in and out of different spots, back into parking spaces. She will learn it.</p>

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<p>I didn’t notice it until you mentioned it, but I look at the “walk” sign every time-- if it’s blinking the light is about to change. If It’s not blinking I go right through as long as nobody is barrelling at the intersection looking like they might not stop. If it’s blinking, I might take my foot off the gas depending on how far away I am from the light and if I know whether or not it just started blinking (I totally still have time) or if it was blinking already (I might not have time.) Usually in the moment of hesitation in “I might not have time” the light changes yellow and I just stop.</p>

<p>I was taught in drivers ed to always stop at a yellow light if I can, yellow light does not mean “speed up if you can make it.” It drove my mom nuts when I drove this way but it was the way I needed to learn. When you get better at judging distances you develop a better idea of when to go and when to try to stop, but having that concrete of a rule helped remove some of the panic as I approached an intersection. </p>

<p>There are definite strategies you or an instructor can help your D work on when you can pinpoint what she is struggling with!</p>

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<p>Eh…drivers who brake at green lights urk me. It only increases the chance of the lights turning on you. </p>

<p>I agree with BarnardMom. Have her pick a landmark. When I approach an intersection, I decide whether I’m going to stop or not. Teach her with not only green lights, but yellow lights as well. It is not always best to stop at yellow lights. Sudden braking at an intersection increases the chance of being rear ended. There are cases where speeding up is the best choice rather than braking hard for the light. </p>

<p>I don’t look at the walk signs. Some of them have the time…some don’t, but they’re not reliable to judge when the light will change because with a green light they don’t turn on. They only turn on when someone presses the button. </p>

<p>Your daughter, with time, will be able to judge light times and whether she should stop or not. It take practice and experience. Don’t be surprised if she runs a red light or two in the beginning. ;)</p>

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<p>*She is probably slowing down as she approaches green lights because she’s afraid it will turn yellow and she doesn’t know how to judge whether to go through or try to stop if it does. My daughter was like that too. I had that same fear as a new driver so I would choose a point- a sign or landmark, as I approached a light and determine if it was still green when I got to that point, I was going no matter what. *</p>

<p>This is very good advice. Can your D estimate car-lengths? If so, then give her a number of car lengths that if the light is still green at that point, she’s going to go thru even if it turns yellow.</p>

<p>I don’t know how many car lengths that should be…it may also depend on street-speed…but I’m guessing maybe 5 car lengths? Or would others suggest another number? (I really am not sure…lol).</p>

<p>Maybe have her practice this in a large empty parking lot. Set up something to be the “light” and then approach from afar. Then let her get a feel for at what point if the light were to still be green it’s ok to go thru.</p>

<p>How long are yellow lights…lol? 3 seconds? 5 seconds? Maybe longer for wider intersections?</p>

<p>And…when she’s a passenger when you and DW are driving, then talk this thru when YOU are approaching a light. Have her in the front seat paying attention. maybe have her pretend that she’s got pedals on her side.</p>

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<p>Ema, you never saw a bus until you were 17? Where did you live? A farm in the middle of the UP?</p>

<p>I took a bus to school every day in elementary and middle school .</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t make a suggestion based off of car lengths. It’s too varied. Distance from the intersection along with the type of intersection and yellow light length factored in is, in my opinion, better than suggesting car lengths. </p>

<p>She needs to be observant when’s hems a passenger. She needs to watch what the driver does at different speeds. When the driver stops and when the driver coast through. Equally important, she needs to experience it herself and gain a sense of comfort with the light cycles.</p>

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<p>City driving is actually a more complex driving situation than driving on divided highways. In the city, there are more places for cross traffic to come from and shorter intervals between decision points (turns, lane changes, intersections, traffic lights, signs, destinations you are looking for).</p>

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<p>The go/stop decision when the light turns yellow depends on the speed one is going as well as the distance from the intersection. Traffic engineers set yellow light durations based on the speed of traffic approaching the intersection. Longer yellow lights give greater margin of error by drivers making the “wrong” go/stop decision, but reduce traffic flow (due to green light time being reduced to give more yellow time).</p>

<p>Basically, if you can stop safely before entering the intersection, then the stop decision is safe. If you can continue, enter the intersection before it turns red, and exit the intersection, then the go decision is safe. If you are approaching at the speed limit, there should be a zone where both go and stop are safe (if closer, only go is safe; if further, only stop is safe). If the yellow light is too short, then there is a zone where neither go nor stop is safe.</p>

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<p>^^^
Then maybe have the D pay attention to the parents’ braking or “going thru” habits while having her sit in the front seat.</p>

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<p>I saw yellow school buses, but not any other kind of bus that people besides children could take-- I didn’t think school buses count since they are only for children and have nothing to do with people who can’t/won’t drive. According to wiki, my hometown has a population of over 90,000… no real buses.</p>

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<p>I grew up in the same place that Ema did. There are no buses other than school buses where we’re from. However I often went to Detroit, Ann Arbor, Livonia, Lansing, etc where there were plenty of buses.</p>

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<p>Didn’t know that, I figured they had at least daytime buses throughout southeast Michigan. I never tried to go farther than Ypsi but I swear I’ve seen that AATA has buses that go to Chelsea and Canton, and a few other places I think.</p>

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<p>What bus systems run in Livonia? I have never seen one. Smart Bus doesn’t according to their route map and when I google Livonia buses the only hits I get are para transit and a “to work” program that only runs twice a day.</p>

<p>AATA I think just recently opened up ONE bus that I think goes from Canton to Ann Arbor but not anywhere in between and just has the two stops, and I think it is another one that only runs a couple of times a day. I tried to use it when I was commuting to Ann Arbor for school (because I couldn’t drive yet!) and the only way I could use it was if I waited around for six hours for the bus home. </p>

<p>AATA is really something else entirely, if you ask me. Nothing else I have seen in the SE compares.</p>