<p>geeps20,
“dating” scene lol!!!
I feel similarly to you in my gut, but this is what is out there, so our kids have to learn to navigate, which is not the same as fully participate or fully avoid.
To get back to OP, look this girl seem to be in an exclusive relationship- that has its pluses. And some minuses (not open to meeting others, possible distraction form school work)-- no matter who the BF is!</p>
<p>The OP said that her daughter did not have to go all the way across the country to date a non-college-attending dishwasher. She could have stayed home on the West coast, gone to a cheaper college and found a non-college-attending dishwasher.</p>
<p>^ yes “navigate”…that sounds better…lol</p>
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<p>For some, it is precisely that along with being with a critical mass of classmates who are just as intellectually-inclined and engaged…regardless of their families’ socio-economic background. </p>
<p>This is not necessarily met even if a given couple has had elite college/grad school educations and similar socio-economic backgrounds. </p>
<p>I know of a few classmates’ friends whose parents have had severe marital difficulties or even divorced despite having similar socio-economic and pedigreed educational backgrounds(Including married from the same/peer Ivies) because the gap between their levels of intellects and/or degree of engagement with highly intellectual matters is too vast to bridge easily. </p>
<p>Think one spouse inclined to read, discuss, and engage with abstract philosophical, historical, political, economic, and scientific literature/concepts read mostly by academic specialists in their respective fields at a deep level while the other prefers reading pop-literature, watching television, buying kitschy mass-market knickknacks, disdains spouse’s high level of intellectual engagement, and/or going on mindless shopping sprees*…even if the former party is not pedantic and can engage in light-hearted conversations if needed. </p>
<p>One also has to keep in mind that there are highly intellectually inclined and engaged people who never went on for higher-education due to finances or other reasons out of their control. Some of the most intelligent and highly engaged people I’ve met never graduated or even graduated from high school. Some of them could more than hold their own in highly intellectually engaging conversations with graduates from elite universities and I have nothing, but the greatest respect for them. </p>
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<li>Applies to both genders here.</li>
</ul>
<p>I see nothing tongue in check in the original post…just snobbery</p>
<p>I disagree & the fact that the OP returned to say how much the replies made her laugh, instead of obsessing over the boyfriend also points to a less serious take on the situation.</p>
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<p>Right, and the kids’ aspirations don’t matter, because our worth as human beings depends on what our kids earn.</p>
<p>I’m reminded of a thread a couple of months ago in which a senior (I think) at a highly selective and expensive private college decided he wanted to go into teaching, and his parents were horrified: “After all the money we spent to send you to college - we could have sent you to a state school.”</p>
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<p>It isn’t only about the money with many such parents. With the exception of a few highly idealistic academic achievers, there’s a common and unfortunately somewhat accurate perception of K-12 education being a dumping ground for undergraduate academic mediocrities. </p>
<p>This perception isn’t helped by common accounts of undergrad education majors at most schools being regarded as one of the least academically rigorous majors and that the standards for even the top education grad schools is much lower than their Arts and Sciences and professional school counterparts on the same campus. </p>
<p>I knew of many college classmates and friends who were accepted to such top ed grad schools with sub-3.0 GPAs…including a former roommate who attended a Top 3 Ivy M.Ed program who admitted that there was no way he’d be accepted into an A & S Masters program on the same campus with his mediocre college GPA/GRE scores.</p>
<p>So here’s a thought experiment:</p>
<p>Would you rather your daughter dated</p>
<ol>
<li>the dishwasher</li>
<li>the well connected full pay college student who parties heavily and is wasted several days a week</li>
</ol>
<p>“There’s a common and unfortunately somewhat accurate perception of K-12 education being a dumping ground for undergraduate academic mediocrities… I knew of many college classmates and friends who were accepted to such top ed grad schools with sub-3.0 GPAs…including a former roommate who attended a Top 3 Ivy M.Ed program who admitted that there was no way he’d be accepted into an A & S Masters program on the same campus with his mediocre college GPA/GRE scores.”</p>
<p>Whoa, wait a minute. First, 3.0 at college is not the same as 3.0 in high school. Maybe you can’t get into med school with a sub 3.0, but that doesn’t mean you can’t be a great teacher. Or a great human being. Maybe you’ve forgotten those awesome teachers your kid had in K-12, who put so much time and energy into educating your kids without a lot of thanks or renumeration. Granted, some of them are “mediocre” and probably had sub-3.0 GPAs, but some are fantastic. Should we be judging people on their GPAs, their occupations, their bank accounts? Or on their character and deeds? I would prefer my daughter to be with someone who treats her and other people well rather than someone who makes a lot of money but is an a…hole. But, to be consistent, since I have maintained previously to stay out of their love lives, I have no say in this matter, either. She may prefer the rich guy.</p>
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<p>True. IME and those of my HS classmates…getting a 3.0 in college was easier…even in STEM subjects. </p>
<p>The main issue is how could someone be an effective teacher for an new generation of students if they were mediocre or even sub-par students themselves? Especially at an educational stage critical to build up the knowledge and skills necessary to be effective teachers of a given subject. </p>
<p>The problem of around half the teachers graduating in the bottom half of their respective college classes in mostly less rigorous/gut majors has been cited by many education critics as a reason why US K-12 education has fallen so far behind compared with other nations like Singapore or Finland where teachers have to graduate college in the top 1/3 to even enter a teaching certification program. </p>
<p>At the very least, it sets a very poor example to exhort young students to excel when many teachers and education administrators were mediocre students themselves and the problem is well-known within education circles and in the greater public. </p>
<p>One manifestation of this issue was how some years back the Boston area was scandalized when most M.Ed graduates couldn’t even pass a standardized exam that was to be administered to 6th graders. How can one maintain credibility as a teacher to a group of 6th graders and their parents when most teachers actually failed the very exam that they were supposed to prep them for and administer at the end of the year?</p>
<p>Here’s another thought experiment: </p>
<p>My daughter, who just graduated from college, is engaged to a full time school bus driver. I fear she will be supporting him.</p>
<p>That could have been written by my parents 30+ years ago. The young man in question was working full time as a bus driver because the hours worked with his college class schedule. At the time, he was making more money than I was as a full time first year teacher. He went on to graduate from medical school, complete a residency, is board certified, and is an active duty Army Colonel. </p>
<p>(My parents wouldn’t have written that, because they adored him, but I’m guessing they endured some snotty behind the back gossip similar to the snarkier comments about the dishwasher on this thread.)</p>
<p>This particular teacher graduated with a double major and a 3.8 GPA.</p>
<p>Teaching is one of the careers that came to mind when the thread veered to money. Clergy, execs at many non-profits, small business owners, writers, etc, all can have great educations, great minds, be great people and inspire many-- without high salaries. Let’s not fall int the trap of assuming teachers are all low college performers.</p>
<p>^^^ Thats not the point of the OP. The OPdaughter boyfriend is a dishwasher with no college plans. Theres absolutely nothing wrong, and actually gives a greater understanding to life in the “real world”, with working however many hours needed to be able to go through college. No one can argue with that. What the holier than thou posters are missing is the fact that by dating a non college person, be he an investor banker or a dishwasher, or a famous rock star, the girl is taking herself out of the “college experience”. Dont think she will easily come back to the routine of college life where friendships are already forged, etc. after missing out on many bonding activities. Hope for the OP that this is not a greek-life heavy college with rush the first year.</p>
<p>Well, the OP has not returned to clarify, but it seems like the major concern is that the bf is not educating himself, and only washing dishes…so a poor match. The concern does not seem to be (or at least was not written that way) that she was not making friends in college. </p>
<p>Since the D is in a huge school, and studies with other groups, there will be plenty of opportunities to make friends. Remember, she is only 3 months into her first semester.</p>
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<p>I could not agree more. Unfortunately, there are some frequent posters on CC who don’t get that - who think, as one recently put it, “I think most of us would say it is for better financial opportunity in the future.”</p>
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<p>Certainly not all. But statistics show that most people now teaching in the public schools have come from the bottom quarter of college graduates. (That’s measured by entering SAT scores; and unfortunately, the recent book “Academically Adrift” has data to show that education majors are among the lowest achievers in terms of developing critical thinking skills while in college.) Recent data ([NY</a> Times Advertisement](<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/education/12teachers.html?th&emc=th]NY”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/12/education/12teachers.html?th&emc=th)) indicates the situation is improving at the high school level, but not at the elementary level.</p>
<p>I think we should encourage our bright, motivated kids to go into public education, not discourage them. But that is anathema, of course, to those who are convinced that you are what you earn (or that you are what society thinks about the status of your chosen profession).</p>
<p>Annasdad - I think even you would want to make sure your kid could get a job someday. Difference in unemployment rate between college grad and high school rate is pretty big. You decided to get out of the rat race, “good for you,” but some of us have decided to stay in for the sake of our family. </p>
<p>My kids know they have our full support and we have always been there for them. Just for the record, our kids have never dated anyone who is wealth, even though they’ve had plenty of opportunity, because it’s not how they were brought up.</p>
<p>Considering that only 30% of the US population has a bachelor’s degree, even those that come from the bottom quarter of college graduates are still more highly educated than 70% of the population. At least they have SAT scores- fewer than 50% of high school graduates take the SAT. Teachers may have lower SAT scores and critical thinking skills (how is that measured?), but they have done the necessary work to attain a college education. (Not all of the best and brightest that start at a university are going to finish, as many threads on this forum can attest). Out of any group of students at a university, law school, med school, etc, some have to be in the bottom quarter. But guess what? They are at a university, which already means they are in that top 30%. What do they call a doctor who graduated at the bottom of his or her class? Doctor.
Sure, it would be great if the top quarter of students decided to become teachers (isn’t that part of Teach for America’s mission?) Some of them will after they can’t get jobs as lawyers. Some of them will after they burn out on Wall Street. My daughter’s 3rd grade teacher left the business world to become a teacher.</p>
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<p>No. I want to make sure that my kids develop into complete human beings and maximize the potential with which they were born. That done, the jobs will take care of them selves.</p>
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<p>Actually, our kids were at the top of the list of reasons DW and I decided to change careers.</p>
<p>I am sure you are making sure they have as many options as possible too.</p>
<p>Absolutely. And I am making sure they are their options, not my options.</p>