<p>mini, how observant,…but I thought you weren’t an observant jew</p>
<p>He hates me, too, Jew or not, and probably more so if I am observant.</p>
<p>Mini, do you believe Jesus is the son of God?</p>
<p>careful, mini, the diplomatic response demands a degree of savior-faire</p>
<p>Hey. This is the thread for it. :)</p>
<p>I believe exactly as Jesus said:</p>
<p>“Blessed are the Peacemakers
For they shall be called the Sons of God.”</p>
<p>(Matthew 5:9)</p>
<p>That’s not quite what I meant. :)</p>
<p>Do you believe in the “Virgin Birth”? Do you believe in the resurrection?</p>
<p>What turned you away from Judaism?</p>
<p>mini, may I ask why you oppose Zionism? In what sense is it different from supporting self-determination for any other group of people? As you can probably tell from my question, I don’t view ‘being a Jew’ as simply being a follower of a religion, but as being part of a nationality (for want of a better term) - I am guessing you would not agree with this?</p>
<p>(Please feel free not to answer, I’m not trying to start an argument, I’m just interested!)</p>
<p>I wonder what the jewish CC’ers think about this new idea of “Secular BarMitzvahs” that some people I know are giving. To me, it sounds like a contradiction in terms, but they say it reinforces their identity as Jews even if they don’t practice Judaism??</p>
<p>What’s a secular Bar Mitzvah? A big birthday pary with a lot of food?</p>
<p>Its something they do in New Jersey where the child prepares some sort of thesis about the cultural aspects of Judaism and reads it. Then there’s a big party.</p>
<p>“That’s not quite what I meant.”</p>
<p>Well, then I think you should rethink what you mean. The Sermon on the Mount is a central teaching in my belief system, and contains its central tenets. </p>
<p>“mini, may I ask why you oppose Zionism?”</p>
<p>For purposes of this discussion, I don’t. I simply refused to teach it as part of my religion. </p>
<p>“Do you believe in the “Virgin Birth”? Do you believe in the resurrection?”</p>
<p>I have no experience of them. So I think of them as speculative. Others might have different experience. </p>
<p>I can’t be a true disciple, though. The clear and unambiguous requirements of Luke 14:26 I reject.</p>
<p>“What turned you away from Judaism?”</p>
<p>Judaism. I came to believe (actually, I was taught by my rabbis) that the things I really love about Judaism (and continue to) are not central to Judaism, and that the things which are central I don’t accept. Perhaps it is simpler to say that I was born to a different home than that in which I was adopted. I certainly don’t hate Jews the way David Mamet does. (I don’t curse as much, either.)</p>
<p>So Mini, what are these things you love about Judaism but you feel are not central to Judaism, and what things did you feel were central to Judaism but are not?</p>
<p>To put it simpler, I guess I am asking what parts of Judaism are you ashamed of?</p>
<p>Why do you keep talking about “shame”? Why should I be ashamed of something of which I am not a part?</p>
<p>Not meant to be ornery, or rhetorical, what parts are YOU ashamed of? The same parts as David Mamet? Something else? What’s bugging you?</p>
<p>Mini, Mini, Mini,</p>
<p>Why so ambigious? You clearly are a person of strong convictions, so I asked a question and you do not seem to like it so you did not answer.</p>
<p>You can consider yourself a Quaker, but God forbid, another Shoah occurs and you will go as fast as any Hasidic Rabbi from Crown Heights. Like it or not you a Jew, just a non-observant Jew.</p>
<p>Me? I am not ashamed of my Judaism at all. I am proud of being Jewish and I will tell that to anyone. Unfortunately I do not have the will power to become fully observant even though I feel it is the right thing to do. Hopefully, one day, as my level of observance progresses this will change.</p>
<p>So I answered your question. Now extend me the same curteosy, unless ofcourse you feel this was too personal of a question I asked and you are uncomfortable answering it?</p>
<p>Thank you for pulling the race hatred card, and condemning me to the same fires in which I lost most of my extended family. Are you trying to tell me something I don’t already know?</p>
<p>I promise I won’t do the same to you.</p>
<p>Well if you knew then its all the better. I am not condemning anyone to the fires which killed 6 million people, I am ‘condemning’ you to the people who lost 6 million of their own. I think that is what makes you so uncomfortable.</p>
<p>As for your observance, why are you so elusive? Do you care to answer on your elusiveness as well as those ideas central to Judaism which turned you away and those ideas you felt were central to Judaism? Or was that earlier statement some kind of rhetorical ploy on your part?</p>
<p>I thank you for pulling the race hatred card without any hint of condemnation, and think if you took this Sabbath or many Sabbaths to contemplate your own response, I think you might come to similar conclusions that I did.</p>
<p>A good rabbi could help.</p>
<p>“Well, then I think you should rethink what you mean.”</p>
<p>I know what I mean. :)</p>
<p>This thread can be great where people talk about their beliefs and why, or it can degenerate into personal attacks. I hope the former happens and not the latter.</p>
<p>(Edit: I see what is happening. :()</p>
<p>As a Jew, I have many problems with the religion.
I don’t like the idea of the “Chosen People”. I don’t like the idea of 1 God which means my God is God, your God doesn’t exist.</p>
<p>Many stories in the Jewish Bible are too violent, too vindictive, filled with hate.
They are also written by different tribes.
There is also too much fear of God and too much thank you God, thank you God, please help me God, protect me from my enemies God.</p>
<p>And the idea that Abraham was going to sacrifice his son for God, If any God would even entertain that idea, or use that idea to teach me a lesson, well he could go to hell. 
I’m not worshipping any God that does things like that.</p>
<p>I read the Bible and I see a lot of scared people that don’t know which end is up and are trying to figure a way to live with each other and support each other, a lot of people with miserable lives that are trying to survive.</p>
<p>I don’t see God.</p>
<p>What I love about the Jewish religion is what you do on this earth counts. You are responsible for your actions. Nobody else takes the responsibility for your sins. You are not born a sinner. Do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because of heaven or hell. You don’t get to be a mass murderer, then become a believer and go to heaven.</p>
<p>The Jews also believe in education. We don’t have a hierarchy. Your ideas are just as valid as a rabbi. We are taught to think for ourselves and not just follow a higher authority.</p>
<p>We believe in individual achievement and the collective good.</p>
<p>We don’t search the world looking for converts. </p>
<p>We are also part of a religion that is evolving. We are always questioning what we are doing, what we should be doing, what we could be doing better.</p>
<p>Dstark, I suggest that you reread the Torah, but this time re read it with the Midrash, Rashi, Vilna Gaon, Akiba, Maimonedes, Nachmonedes etc as an aid to understanding the Torah. Even better if you read it with a Rabbi, who has spent his life studying the texts. This will open your eyes to a different perspective of the Torah. </p>
<p>You alluded to Abraham “sacraficing” Isaac. I do not have much knowledge on this but I will try to recount what I have learned while reading this part with a Midrash and commentaries.</p>
<p>At this point Abraham was becoming very powerful where he lived. His word was strong and all of his enemies could not defeat him. As a result Satan started to tell God that Abraham forgot about God, that he no longer would thank God for the strenth and powers he had, that Abraham would believe that his invincibility came from God alone. So God ‘bet’ Satan that Abraham has not forgotten him. Abraham took his son Isaac, and together they walked towards Moriah (I am paraphrasing here and omitting alot of important commentary). When they got there and Isaac was finally put on the altar, Abraham lifted the knife over his son, and God sent an angel down to stop Abraham, but Abraham rebuked the Angel. He fought its efforts to stop him from sacrificing his son. God, Abraham said, commanded me to sacrifice my son and so only God will tell me to stop what I am doing. Meanwhile God was ‘embarassed’ that he made Abraham do what he did. God had violated his own words, his own commandments. Remeber God had already given Abraham the Torah. So God came to Abraham and told him to not kill his son. “When Abrahamheard the celestial voice ordering him to spare his son Isaac, he declared: I sear I shall not leave the altar, Lord, before I speak my mind.–Speak, said God.–Did you not promise me that my descendants would be as numerous as the stars in the sky?–Yes I did promise you that-And whose dscendants will they be? Mine? Mine alone?- No, said God, they will be Isaac’s as well.-And didnt You alo promise me that they would inherit the earth?–Yes, I promised you that too.–And whose descendants will they be? Mine alone?–No, said God’s voice, they will be Isaac’s as well.–Well then, my Lord, said Abraham unbashedly, I could have pointed out to You before that Your order contradicted Your promise. I cod have spoken up, I didn’t. I contained my grief and held mytongue. In return, I want You to mak me the following promise: that when, in the future, my children and my children’s children wil act against Your law and against Your will, You will also say nothing and forgive them.–So be it, God agreed. Let them but retell this tale and they will be forgiven”</p>
<p>There is your Rosha Hashana and Yom Kippur. God does things for a reason. There is a plan that we do not know and will never know. I hope this maybe changes your mind towards the “sacrifice” part of the Bible. But keep in mind that this is not all, that I only reconted a tiny bit of what exits.</p>