<p>I remember when I was young, I always used to think “well why don’t us nice Muslims just go tell extremists what they’re doing is not okay, and everything will be fine!” I was so naive :(</p>
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But don’t you think moderates have to speak out in order to influence broader public opinion among Muslims? After all, complaints by Reform Jews–most of them not even in Israel–do seem to generating movement on the Wall issue. The Orthodox don’t like it, but they are answerable to the broader society, at least to a significant extent. Isn’t the same true in relatively progressive Muslim countries? Don’t we want public opinion in those countries to shift away from extremism? I note that the Pope just the other day called on Mafiosi to repent–while that may not have an effect on gangsters, it might cause Catholics in general to be less tolerant of the mob.</p>
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<p>well…I’m still waiting…</p>
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<p>Indifference is also a sign of tacit acceptance. The voices do not have be loud, but the silence is nothing short of openly condoning the actions of extremists.</p>
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Do you mean waiting for me to denounce extremists? I thought I made it clear that I find them completely abhorrent and disgusting. If not, I think the previous sentence here does. 
I hate fanatics. With every bone in my body.</p>
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Exactly. The key words being in relatively progressive Muslim countries. You’re not going to see it in a place like Saudi Arabia where somone might be endangering themselves and their families by speaking out. But in non-oppressive Musim countries, you do see this. Muslims often condemn terrorism, but the mainstream media doesn’t cover it much. A Muslim calling for peace isn’t as interesting as negative stories.
Take, for example, a group of extremists in Bangladesh (the name escapes me at the moment). The majority of the country absolutely hates them. They presented a list of a demands a while back, which stated things like how women should not be allowed outdoors. Needless to say, they were completely shutdown.</p>
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<p>This is wrong. Muslims believe that a strict adherence to sharia law will lead to perfection. BTW the extreme terrorist believe that they are practicing perfection under Islamic law.</p>
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<p>Therein lies the problem. If there is to be any hope then moderates must stop hiding,get in the fight, and preach tolerance and understanding. BTW moderate Muslims have the most to lose under sharia law.</p>
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In a way, but Muslims neither believe that human beings can practice Sharia in a perfect way nor that anyone can have a perfect understanding of Islam. I’m not sure perfect is the right word though, because most Muslim don’t believe that life in this world can be perfect. They do, however, believe that the closer society gets to following Sharia, the better it becomes.
I would also like to point out, once again, that the majority of Muslims, myself included, don’t believe that what is practiced in the Middle East is Sharia (and for good reason, considering the contradictions surrounding it- I’m sure that it’s fine in Saudi to beat someone up for being Christian- it’s not fine in Sharia law).</p>
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I am sure they do, but I wasn’t talking about extremists. My point was that moderate Muslims believe that Islam is perfect, but that doesn’t make them extremist, and they realize that Islam can never be practiced perfectly.</p>
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<p>Sally305-All if not most of Islam is saying it and most believe it. It believes God, the same God, ironically of the Christian and Jew, delivered the perfect word to the prophet Muhammad. 100-200 years after the prophets death, sharia was formed to demand perfection under threat of severe punishment.</p>
<p>I’m sure the leaders of the Muslim Golden Age believed that they were following Sharia to the best of their ability, and indeed, looking at how things were run, it seemed that society was very based on Sharia. You cannot say that practicing Sharia destroyed the Islamic Golden Age- Sharia was implemented in that Age.
Current fanatics are just more extreme in their interpretation, if you could even call it a valid interpretation.</p>
<p>Why is it ironic that it’s the same God of the Christians and Jews? God is God.</p>
<p>I think I’ve made my stance clear- believing that Islam is perfect doesn’t mean that anyone is extreme or intolerant.</p>
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<p>Unfortunately it does. Perfection is an extremist viewpoint.</p>
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I’ve provided many retorts to this.</p>
<p>How would you define extremist? I’m defining it as someone hateful, intolerant, and oppressive. Many people, Muslim or not, believe that their religion is perfect (though that doesn’t mean they believe that it can be practiced or understood in a perfect way by human beings, as humans are flawed), and they are not any of the things I listed above as what an extremist is.</p>
<p>On a slightly unrelated note, and going into a more theological and philosophical argument, why follow a religion you deem to be imperfect? Wouldn’t that simply mean that you aren’t a follower of that religion? You can argue that it’s because you follow the tenants which you feel are right, but I do that with every religion I come across. I feel like that should be done with everything anyone comes across, to take the good and leave the bad. But when you follow a religion, you’re saying that there is something greater then yourself and the religion is perfect, hence by following and trying to understand the religion, you ultimately understand much more about life (and things beyond life), since the religion provides a perfect explanation. Your goal is simply to try and understand it to the best of your ability as a humble follower.</p>
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<p>And there it is. The crux of the problem. The mindset that allows for no middle ground or dialogue. There is no more extremist point of view than perfection, yet you do not see it.</p>
<p>Also, I have the freedom and free will to understand that no religion is perfect including Islam. Under sharia law, you do not have that freedom so you cannot comprehend it. Your freewill has been hijacked in the name of religion, and I am sorry for it.</p>
<p>The last paragraph I typed is irrelevant of my religion. It was a philosophical argument, nothing more, nothing less. And rather than providing a logical retort, you have simply called it a “problem.” If you think it’s a false assumption, please give your reasons for it. Just saying that it is a problem is unproductive. I am perfectly willing to discuss whether the assumption itself is wrong or right. If I wasn’t, then I wouldn’t have typed it up.</p>
<p>Free will cannot be hijacked. That would be impossible. I choose to believe in what I do, as does everyone else. </p>
<p>Why do you assume that believing in what I believe in means that there is no room for discussion? Discussion of what? </p>
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The only problem I find with the use of the word extremist is that it implies hatred and intolerance. Unless, as I have asked before, you define it differently?</p>
<p>I’m Methodist, but I haven’t really read the bible lately. Isn’t it, God is perfect, man is always flawed? Then man’s interpretation of many things is then not perfect. Man created many parts of religion, did he not? I guess I don’t really know where religion is perfect came from, at least in Christianity.</p>
<p>Regarding the “religion is perfect” or not type of beliefs, [url=<a href=“One-Third of Americans Believe the Bible Is Literally True”>One-Third of Americans Believe the Bible Is Literally True]One-Third</a> of Americans Believe the Bible Is Literally True<a href=“as%20of%202007”>/url</a>.</p>
<p>It is also a basic belief of many, if not most, Christians, that Jesus was perfect, that he never, ever, in his life, committed a single sin. And in Matthew 5, Jesus commands his followers to be “perfect,” as their heavenly Father is perfect. So enough, please, of suggesting that this is a difference between Islam and Christianity.</p>
<p>The problem comes, in any religion, when ordinary people start thinking that what they are doing is perfect, that whatever they do is justified by their religious views, even if it involves violence. That’s what extremism is, and Islam doesn’t have a monopoly on it.</p>
<p>But there’s a lot of it in Islam right now, as I keep saying.</p>
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<p>Because you will not entertain that Islam is not perfect. A false sense of perfection never leaves room for discussion.</p>
<p>I could give you the history lesson of the God of Abraham from Jew to Catholic to Muslim to Reformed Christian etc, and If I did you will see that religion has never been perfect and has always been in the need of change and reformation, because as man changes so must religion as is proven by history. To believe that the Muslim have gotten it perfect and those religions before and after have not is both illogical and dogmatic.</p>
<p>stressedouttt, to answer your question in #172: plenty of people follow religions they deem to be imperfect. Catholics, Jews, Baptists, you name it. They pick and choose the parts of the doctrine they agree with and find good-enough reasons to disregard the rest.</p>
<p>stressedouttt, your posts also seem to prioritize offense to Islam as the most important aspect of this complex issue, and if Islam is insulted, then it is by those who do terrible things in its name. The most important aspect of this story, by far, is the danger posed by adherents of Islam to others. Nothing else is even in the same ballpark.</p>