Dear Life – December CC Book Club Selection

Parent Cafe
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<p>I felt disgruntled after reading “To Reach Japan” and “Amundsen” did not improve my mood.</p>

<p>I do not understand why Dr. Fox acts as he does toward Mary when she drops in.</p>

<p>I do not understand why Vivien likes Dr. Fox, much less loves him.</p>

<p>I do not understand why Dr. Fox dumps (literally) Vivien.</p>

<p>The setting is cold, as are the characters. A backstory or two would definitely help.</p>

<p>At this point in Dear Life my enthusiasm dulls. I look up Alice Munro because I need to know more about the author. I come across the descriptor mono no aware and discover it’s apropos. I settle in to read, finding that knowing what to expect helps.</p>

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<p>Dr. Fox is a control freak. Mary wasn’t part of his plan for the evening. I wondered what Vivien’s story was that she didn’t insist on going to see Pinafore and that she allows herself to be sucked in by Dr. Fox who seems thoroughly unpleasant. It’s hard for me to believe he had been pleasant to Anabel and Mary before Vivien arrived. I had a hard time with this story. When he’s dumping her between the lines I was hardly sure what was happening. I thought the way that scene was written was brilliant, with Vivien hardly able to take in what just happened. While he was backing up a car! But the motivations for the characters just was too opaque for me.</p>

<p>Mary did you really like and respect the doctor and the teacher in Amundsen? I feel like they were both very self-absorbed and willing to hurt other people. Vivien I think was basically a good person under the thrall of the doctor, but I don’t see anything redeeming about Dr. Fox except his job, and maybe his honesty.</p>

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<p>Like ignatius, I was very discouraged after the first two stories. I read the first two at the end of October and didn’t want to pick the book back up. I read the rest of the book last week.</p>

<p>I like this discussion. It is getting me to think more about the book. Thanks for pointing out the humor, NJTM. I agree with Mary that the stories show Munro’s guilt. They also show regret. </p>

<p>mathmom - I was really upset when Vivien didn’t go see Pinafore. It really bothered me that she completely ignored Mary. Dr. Fox was also supposed to go. I don’t get it. It was a lonely story full of lonely people.</p>

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<p>Dr Fox was like the controlling Uncle Jasper in “Haven.” He dumped Vivien because he was so self-centered that – although he was tempted to marry her – he realized that he couldn’t bear to share his life with anyone.</p>

<p>I think Vivien was lonely, and flattered by Dr Fox’s attention. There are also women who are maybe a bit masochistic and are attracted to controlling men.</p>

<p>I thought the fact that Dr Fox told Vivien about his decision not to marry her right after she had disapproved of his choice of a place to have lunch was haunting. What if she had acquiesced to lunch in the cafe? Probably he would have done the same thing, but you have to wonder!</p>

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<p>I’m going to chalk some of it up to good old-fashioned chemistry. Back to the Jane Eyre analogy, why did Jane fall in love with Rochester? He was no romance novel hero. An older man, unusual, enigmatic. I think Vivien is drawn to Fox’s authority, air of mystery (what do we know about him really?), intelligence, intensity, and skill with the children. </p>

<p>Vivien does not embark on her teaching adventure looking for love. In fact, it’s the opposite – she creates an imaginary boyfriend, so that she will be seen as unavailable, but Dr. Fox sees through the sham. Although he can’t bring himself to marry her in the end, I do think he loves her – at least so far as he is capable of love. She is probably a breath of fresh air for him, so different from his patients and his death-inured staff. Interestingly, when the story opens, Vivien first introduces herself as “Vivi,” which means “alive.” </p>

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<p>I did like both characters! I didn’t see either as willing to hurt others. Their professions are very selfless, and they are both committed to their work. I loved the scene where Dr. Fox comes to the classroom and makes the children laugh. </p>

<p>It is true that Mary is shunned by both Vivien and Dr. Fox, but I think it’s because at that point, they are completely absorbed with each other. I didn’t like the fact that Vivien skipped Pinafore, but neglecting others when falling in love is probably a pretty common practice. Ignoring Mary was no doubt made easier by the fact that she’s a wee bit annoying and apparently a constant presence in Dr. Fox’s life. I think the scene where he is terribly rude to her is probably typical of their relationship. In the story’s first interaction between them, he says “Okay Mary. Enough out of you for one day,” and tells Vivien, “She won’t be in your class so you won’t have to undergo that every day.” Clearly, she tries his patience. She pushes, he pushes back, and I don’t think Mary is overly traumatized by his manner with her. On the contrary, he way she talks about “Reddy” to Vivien indicates that she holds him in high regard. </p>

<p>Maybe I am imbuing Vivien and Dr. Fox with more virtues than they possess because they remind me of other literary characters that I like very much. In addition to Jane and Rochester, Vivien and Fox also remind me of Christy and Dr. MacNeil in Catherine Marshall’s Christy. Okay, it’s not great literature, but it’s a novel I grew up on. She the young teacher, he the rude, inscrutable local doctor…happier ending though.</p>

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<p>I agree that Vivien has a lot have a lot of life in her, but she it seems escaping from the drama of Toronto to a more serene setting. She brings elements of the outside world to the San (finds the globe and re-instructs the kids in geography), yet she wants to be invisible in her spare time, hoping no one will recognize her during lunch. Contrary to this, the doctor seems settled in his isolation, and in spite of having a sense of adventure (through his books), he does not want to relinquish control of his environment. I did feel he had some good qualities (interacting with the kids in the class, opening his home for Vivien, hoping for a medical cure for TB), but I really disliked his treatment of Mary at the house. He humiliates her, telling her she is getting plump from the cookies (Vivien eats a few before he dumps them altogether). Perhaps the cookies represent frivolity? The doctor definitely runs an austere household. </p>

<p>There is no room for Vivien in the doctor’s life, but how does she figure this out at the time she did? I do think it is related to her changing the restaurant…he was in control of the other meals, without asking her input. Now that I think of it, food as control seems to come up a few places in the story. Vivien is tempted to steal some figs but is afraid that it would get noticed. Going to re-read this later!</p>

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<p>All very interesting observations! Especially about the role of food in the story. I haven’t read Jane Eyre in a donkey’s years, but I remember Rochester has being the ultimate in romantic, I never got that sense about Dr. Fox. Maybe if it had been a full length novel I’d have appreciated his good points more. I’d forgotten the scene in the classroom where you see a little bit of it.</p>

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<p>Vivien brings to mind Greta in “To Reach Japan” and Doctor Fox brings to mind Greg. Mary takes on the role of Katy. Differences, yes, but the same adult lack of attending to a child. Both Doctor Fox and Greg work with children. Both are quite good at play also but find it easy to turn off when done. Greg hurts no one when he waves goodbye but then his role is different. He’s the good-time guy. Only Greta’s responsible for the hurt to Katy. Vivien turns away from … not parental responsibility … but definitely simple kindness. She does not attend Mary’s performance and later watches Doctor Fox humiliate Mary. She then beds the man. </p>

<p>Mary’s older and less dependent than Katy. The disregard … lack of caring … she gets from Doctor Fox and, by omission, Vivien differs from Katy’s trauma. Although disregard for Katy’s feelings takes place as she watches her mother kiss a strange man. We know the little girl loves her dad. Both girls get slapped with harsh life lessons.</p>

<p>At least Greta is on equal footing with Greg when she beds him: Vivien never gains that status. Still, the man Greta meets (Harris Bennett) is married and likely to play out a version of the Doctor Fox/Vivien scenario. I have no patience with these people.</p>

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<p>Were there characters in any of the stories that you liked, Ignatius? :slight_smile: </p>

<p>Did you like Belle, or Sadie, for example?</p>

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<p>The discussion is, as always, helping me see things in a slightly different light - but I can’t say I enjoyed the book as a whole, or any of the stories particularly. I appreciate that the writing is carefully done and probably brilliant.</p>

<p>I found the stories dreary and depressing, lacking any joy or humor. They are little glimpses of “ordinary life” but why are they all so dismal? Is it because of the timeframe (the 40’s)? Is it the dark and cold of the northern plains that brings on this dreariness?</p>

<p>It reminds me of those “frozen Norwegian bachelor” books - Giants in the Earth, Out Stealing Horses. Also kind of reminds me of Olive Kitteridge, which I didn’t love either.</p>

<p>I think the role of observer has been done better: The Spectator Bird by Wallace Stegner. Stegner also tackles the “quiet lives of people” better in Crossing to Safety. I think his books resonate more with me for some reason.</p>

<p>I read each of Munro’s stories with dread, waiting for the separation, the death, the betrayal, the diminishment. Reading her thoughts on her relationships to her mother and her children make me think that the isolation and distance she imposed with her writing is a thread through her stories. </p>

<p>Am I sorry I read the book? I’m not. As I said, I can appreciate the writing without loving the stories. Will I read more of hers? Probably not - I have too many books on my “to read” list!!</p>

<p>As always, Mary, thanks for guiding our discussion, and thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts.</p>

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Many ;)</p>

<p>I did not like the first two stories. They are two of the three I mentioned that I disliked … though I should have added “Haven” to my dislike list, making it four stories.</p>

<p>I like Ray and Isabel in “Leaving Maverly” … more characters than I probably should in “Gravel” … the narrator and Oneida in “Pride” though the skunks at the end annoy me … Corrie in “Corrie” though she seems somewhat dim (even I figured out he was keeping the money, duh) … everybody in “Train” probably because I have enough backstory to feel for the characters … and so on.</p>

<p>I think you’re politely hinting that I’m being negative LOL but I really really did not like the characters in the first two stories. Nope, not a bit. </p>

<p>I’ll be a positive ray of sunshine later … other stories.</p>

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<p>Okay, good, Ignatius. I was a little worried! </p>

<p>By the way, I had no idea about the money in the Corrie story. I never figure out things ahead of time – in movies…or mysteries…or anything! Sometimes I don’t understand a movie plot even after I’ve seen the whole thing, and have to have somebody explain it to me.</p>

<p>Maybe that’s why I tend to like character-driven fiction better than plot-driven fiction!</p>

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<p>Yes, I thought the same thing! Olive Kitteridge also has elements of *mono no aware<a href=“many%20thanks,%20ignatius;%20I’d%20never%20heard%20of%20that%20term%20before”>/i</a>. “Awareness of the transience of all things heightens appreciation of their beauty, and evokes a gentle sadness at their passing.”</p>

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<p>Crossing to Safety made it to our book club finalist list at least once, maybe twice. I still haven’t read it, but it’s on my (long, long) list.</p>

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<ol>
<li> “Leaving Maverley.”</li>
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<p>Why is Ray so drawn to Leah? Does she fill some sort of void in his life? “Ray did not reveal and could hardly believe the desolation he had felt during the time the girl was missing.” Ray is a nurturer. He watches over and worries about teenage Leah, and he cares lovingly for Isabel. He’s a gentle soul who made me think of Tallmadge from The Orchardist – good-intentioned, good-hearted, but in the end rather ineffectual.</p>

<p>I wondered about the significance of Ray briefly forgetting Leah’s name at the end of the story. The passage again raises the idea of losing something/being lost, which we saw in both “To Reach Japan” and “Amundsen”:</p>

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<p>I thought Ray forgetting Leah’s name was Munro telling us that Leah fell way behind Isabel in importance to Ray. It bothered me that Ray was talking to Leah when Isabel passed. I assume Munro did it on purpose, but why? The ending didn’t convince me that Ray and Leah would end up together. It certainly set up the possibility, but it didn’t seem like something Ray wanted.</p>

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<p>I think Ray forgot Leah’s name for two reasons:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>He was sad about Isabel’s death, and felt guilty that he was with Leah when she died.</p></li>
<li><p>Leah had gone through many changes over the years. Ray hadn’t seen her for a long while, and didn’t expect to. She had lived mostly in his memory. This new version of Leah was sufficiently startling that it drove her name out of his mind briefly.</p></li>
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<p>I definitely think it was implied that Ray would end up with Leah. He was a nurturer, and would have loved to have children, and this is something that Leah could give him.</p>

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<p>Thanks – the above makes sense. And it fits perfectly with the way Ray is caught off guard by the depth of the grief he feels when Isabel dies: “He’d thought that it had happened long before with Isabel, but it hadn’t. Not until now” (p. 90). It knocks the wind out of him, almost literally: “What he carried with him, all he carried with him, was a lack, something like a lack of air, of proper behavior in his lungs, a difficulty that he supposed would go on forever.”</p>

<p>I was also bothered by the fact that Ray was talking to Leah when Isabel died, but I thought that part of the story rang true. My boss (a priest) has told me that, in his experience, it happens often. A family member keeps a long bedside vigil and then steps away for a moment to engage in the business of life – shower, eat, tend to a child, etc. – and it is at that moment that the dying person passes. He thinks it happens because it is only then, alone, that the person feels untethered and can move on. </p>

<p>Isabel hung on for an extraordinarily long time. Did she do it for Ray, because she understood that he needed her as his focus in life? Perhaps in some mysterious way, Isabel knew that Ray would now have Leah to take care of, and that’s when she allowed herself to go.</p>

<p>I never considered Ray and Leah ending up together romantically. In fact, it has sort of an “ew” factor for me because I looked at them more as father-daughter figures. But I could see a strong mutual friendship developing – a continuation of what had begun on their walks home from the movie theater.</p>

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<p>I have to return for a moment to “To Reach Japan” - sorry for the digression.</p>

<p>Looking at another discussion, someone pointed out that the last two lines in the story

are not about Katy but rather Greta. I reread the last page with that in mind and it fits. In a way, it makes it a better ending. (Laughing at myself - yes, I’m rereading - next I’ll be highlighting and writing in margins.)</p>

<p>Okay “Leaving Maverly”</p>

<p>I like both Ray and Isabel and their story. To me, Leah flits around the edges of the story. Certainly her life choices can be questioned. She runs off with the minister’s somewhat scandalous son, a man she met only once. (Hmm … shades of Greta) Leah later runs off with the new minister (not her father-in-law, thank goodness, though I wonder what he thought of Leah running off with first his son and then his replacement as minister). Leah seems an older and wiser woman when Ray meets her again. Munro leaves the story open-ended but I can see Ray and Leah together. Her scandals will not be a deterrent: he and Isabel weathered their own. Personally, I think he’d be good for Leah. She needs some steadiness in her life. As for him, it’s easy to forget that he was younger than Isabel. Still, it doesn’t have to be a romance - perhaps nothing more than friendship will develop. They need each other, I think - up to them to determine the direction of the need. </p>

<p>Ray can’t “leave Maverly” until Isabel goes. He no longer lives there and won’t return after Isabel’s death. Still, despite a job and an apartment, he hasn’t moved on. He can now. The reason he forgot Leah’s name: she exists, just not front and foremost in his mind at this time. She still flits around the edges of his story.</p>

<p>My feelings re the story: Relief that I like the characters and that I don’t dislike the short story. I also notice that Munro pulls in mention of religion yet again and never in a thumbs-up way. (It reminds me a bit of Christopher Hitchens who seemed to feel the need to bring up religion (or rather atheism) in the most unlikely of places in his essays - like he needed validation of his beliefs.) I wonder about the reasons behind this. It always surprises me when an author’s feelings about religion either pro or con - or politics, for that matter - slide into a story. Third story in a row now that religion shows up either in an off-handed mention or directly, i.e., a sketchy minister. </p>

<p>Not my favorite story but definitely a few rungs up the ladder.</p>

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<p>So far, what I have noticed about all of the stories is that each one bothers me to some extent and makes me think about the characters. </p>

<p>I was troubled by the ending of the story…would Leah and Ray end up together? I tend to think they do. I focused not so much on Ray’s forgetting Leah’s name, but the fact that he remembered…and was relieved by it. She seems to draw men (similar to Isabel) and he is no stranger to scandal. Leah would bring out his protective instincts, and the common wound of loss can bring people together in strange ways.</p>

<p>I can’t really rank these stories in terms of enjoyment…it’s more about what each one provokes.</p>

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<p>Well I’m not sure about ranking in terms of enjoyment, but Leaving Maverly annoyed me more than most of the stories. </p>

<p>Leah seemed secretive and sly to me - she seemed to be sharing her experiences with Ray, but in fact he knew nothing of the real Leah. I thought it interesting that Isabel seemed to feel no worry or incipient jealousy about Ray’s regular date with Leah. And that she thought it was “a great story” that Leah had run off with someone she appears to have only met once. She and Ray may have a whirlwind romance too, but not that whirlwind! Was it somehow symbolic that Isabel seems temporarily well while Leah appears to be happily married with two kids and safely out of town? In any event the return of Leah seems to bring out Isabel’s relapse and withdrawal from the world - though so long drawn out it doesn’t leave Ray with much of a life. He leaves his old life in Manderly, but doesn’t seem ready to really start up a new one in the town with the hospital. He goes home briefly hears the gossip and puts Leah in the category of women who “pay no attention to anything that mattered.” When he runs into Leah at the hospital she calls his wife “Leah” unlike the other hospital employees. I think already she’s half way to winning his heart, except he doesn’t have room in his place for more than one person to move around at a time. I read that literally the first time, but now I think it has a metaphorical meaning as well. When he discovers that Isabel has died, he’s empty. And you have the feeling, he will need to fill that empty place, with the name he almost forgot, but didn’t.</p>

<p>So, maybe I liked it better than I thought, but I just never got that interested in the characters. I don’t really care if they get together or not. And yes, Ray reminds me a lot of the orchardist.</p>