Debt-Free Education or Dream School Debt?

Posing a hypothetical dilemma for an ambitious STEM student:

Imagine you have a guaranteed opportunity to attend Lehigh on full-tuition if you commit via Early Decision (ED).

OR

You have a high chance of getting into several ‘far reach’ schools, but with the expectation of minimal tuition aid (meaning significant out-of-pocket costs).

Assuming avoiding student loans is a high priority, which path would you choose and why? We’re trying to weigh the prestige/fit of far reach schools against a completely debt-free education at a great university.

Easy for me.

Lehigh

Why?

    1. . You stated this - so you sort of answered your own question - Assuming avoiding student loans is a high priority
  1. Reach school vs. target or safety means little for career outcomes, etc. You can only go to one and lots of kids pick safeties

  2. Let’s say your Lehigh cost is $20K (room/board) and your reach school is $90K - that’s $280K or $350-400K after taxes. How are you going to make that up quickly?

  3. There’s no guarantee you’ll have a higher salary from the reach school. In fact, if STEM is a science like bio, you may not have a high salary at all.

  4. If it’s engineering, short of an MIT on reach or maybe CMU, companies care about ABET. If you’ve read me b4, mine turned down Purdue for Alabama. I worried - he didn’t. Who’d he get hired with - Purdue, Washington, CWRU etc as well as W Michigan, Buffalo Utah…as he told me, rankings are for magazines. Companies don’t care

I put up a stat from UCB placement the other day - in 2024, 24% of graduates in EE/CS (arguably the top program in the country) hadn’t found jobs at whenever they took the snapshot - which I can’t find the timing but b4 I think I saw 9 months after graduation…no matter the timeframe, think about - 1/4 of the students at the top school in the country couldn’t find jobs.

Too many tie success to school name. Kids, not schools, find jobs. Is your kid a go-getter or not? That will be more important. There are no guarantees.

To me and I’m not a believer in the ultimate pedigree short of a few schools - and even then - this might be a $350-400K swing before taxes to make up a $280K delta…it’s a no brainer.

Lehigh is a top STEM school.

I’d have to think, like any school with a freebie, they are drawing top top kids - no different than where my son went with amongst the most NMF in the country and no different than the regional public my daughter attended - and her bff there turned down Penn, Rice and Vandy to go. And she turned down schools like W&L, UF, UGA Honors, etc.

One doesn’t have to go to the highest ranked/stretch school. It’s a choice they are making - a perfectly fine one. But in your hypothetical, I’m on the other side.

Best of luck.

.

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One more point to add - depending on how much is out of pocket vs. loans which have fees (so you don’t borrow what you think you’re borrowing) - as part of the Big Beautiful Bill, parent plus loans are now limited to $20K a year and $65K total.

So if you need to borrow a lot for the reach, you might not be able to.

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Lehigh is a very good university. It is also a good “medium” size, or at least I like the size.

Lehigh is high enough ranked that I am not sure that there are many (if any) schools that both are significantly higher ranked and also are “likely” for any student (assuming that you do not have a Nobel Prize and that neither parent is the official head of state of a friendly country). Perhaps if a student was auto-admit for their desired major at UT Austin, or a similarly ranked school that has auto-admit, with in-state tuition, this might be a hard decision. I do not think that any student (again assuming no Nobel Prize …) is actually “likely” to get into MIT or Harvard or Stanford or Princeton or a few similarly highly ranked schools. You really can’t expect this to happen. Maybe an academically superb student who is also the top ranked quarterback in the country …(??).

STEM covers a lot of areas. There are some areas in STEM where a good job is quite likely after graduation. There are some areas in STEM where graduate school is relatively likely, which might imply additional expenses (assuming that a student can afford to attend graduate school). Even in areas where a graduate degree is not needed, sometimes a short one year master’s degree can be valuable, and is easier to pull off if you get your bachelor’s with no debt.

There are plenty of opportunities that a recent graduate might want to take advantage of that do not pay very well. That first job for a new university graduate might in some cases not be the highest paying job, but might still be a good start to a good career. There are some opportunities such as volunteering overseas that are easier to do if you have no debt.

And the economy four or more years into the future is an uncertainty. To me economic uncertainty is another reason to avoid debt. I understand that one possible outcome of an unsound economy might be high inflation, which could help offset the impact of debt, but to me it is just too risky to count on this. Perhaps the safest investment that exists in an uncertain economy may be a very good debt-free education with a pragmatic major.

It is hard to answer a hypothetical question without more information. However, I would tend to lean towards the debt-free bachelor’s degree from a very good university (which also is ABET accredited for some engineering disciplines, if that is the type of STEM that interests you).

By the way, I would not allow my children to take on any debt at all for their bachelor’s degree. One daughter was frustrated by this. She went to a very good school (probably ranked lower than Lehigh, but not necessarily for her major) that was a good fit for her and that also fit the budget. She then got a dream job that paid badly (they could pay badly because the job was that attractive). She could only take the job because she had no debt. This led directly to a second job, which helped to set her up for acceptance to a very good graduate program. She has since thanked me for not letting her take on debt. This worked out well.

A completely debt-free bachelor’s degree is a good plan if you can pull it off.

One more thing that might be worth saying. Avoiding debt for a bachelor’s degree is NOT something that I would look at as the parents being cheap. Rather, it is an example of the parents looking out for the child’s well being. It shows that the parents understand that debt is a risk, and that debt can represent the loss of some career related opportunities down the road. Sometimes we have to take risks in life, but when you have a very good debt-free option it is usually the right option to take. If the parents insist on their children graduating without debt, I would take this as an example of parents acting like parents who care about their children’s futures. This is not a case of being cheap. This is a case of being pragmatic and realistic.

And all of this assumes that Lehigh offers the student’s most likely major, or something close to the likely major, as an option.

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@tsbna44 @DadTwoGirls Your responses have been incredibly helpful and insightful, thank you! I’m inquiring on behalf of an academically excellent student deeply involved in cutting-edge tech development. Their top choice is MIT, but the net price calculator indicates potential financial challenges. Having achieved success in the U.S. without a degree myself, I’m grappling with the perceived value of a specific university. While I believe a talented student will succeed regardless of where they attend, I’m an immigrant parent and want to confirm my perspective isn’t flawed in this regard.

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I think your perspective IS flawed. There are many “MIT-like” universities- and I don’t think Lehigh is one of them.

Not sure what the specific discipline is- but UIUC for Computer Science? Missouri S&T for Chemical Engineering? Rutgers or UMN for math? Don’t know where you live or how the finances would shake out and don’t know the details on “why MIT” but the construct you’ve posted seems like a strawman argument.

Presumably “debt free” at Lehigh would also mean “debt free” at a bunch of other “meets full need” universities, no? And if the concern is that MIT’s package is too loan heavy, why not look at some of the schools which are no-loan?

Lehigh is a fine school. But socially it is closer to places like BC, Villanova than it is to MIT.

Why only these two schools- and ignoring all the other options?

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Is the Lehigh free tuition due to merit or financial need? Also, at some schools, tuition is a smaller part of total costs. Is attendance entirely free, or just the tuition?

Some reach schools are now making attendance entirely free for those with incomes below $200k and there is considerable aid above that. (When my kid went in 2008 it was free for under $55k!). Are you certain of costs at MIT and other possible “reach” schools?

My family could tolerate $10k in debt. That’s it.

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Every qualified applicant has a *chance” of getting into far reach schools…but better than 90% actually get rejected.

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My suspicion based on OP’s premise is that perhaps there is a special program (whether for local residents, or children of staff, or something) whereby individuals who apply ED and get accepted get free tuition. So I suspect the question is room & board at Lehigh vs. lots-of-pay at a Reach-for-all school.

To get to a more MIT-like school, the question would then be, what would a budget be that would be debt-free for them and to find what other MIT-like schools fall within it, or if room & board are essentially all they can pay without debt.

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I hope the OP comes back to clarify.

We have these debates frequently…. and after 100 posts or so it turns out that the kid does not have the stats to get admitted to “Dream School”, so in essence it’s truly a strawman argument.

A debt free education is wonderful. But there isn’t a lot of evidence that a modest amount of debt will cripple a kid. The stories in the media about how a kid’s life was ruined with debt obfuscates the reality- taking on debt for a for-profit college is ALWAYS a bad idea. Piling on debt by getting a Master’s degree because a person doesn’t want to use the shoe leather required to get a job after a Bachelor’s is faulty logic. Using up a kid’s Pell and then maxxing out on federal loans to get a degree in “Court reporting” or “Travel and tourism” (fields which do not require a bachelor’s in most instances) is a dumb idea.

Etc. A kid smart enough to get into Lehigh early is likely smart enough to read the fine print on loan documentation. A kid smart enough to get into Lehigh early is likely smart enough to use a payback calculator and understand the implications of a 27K loan.

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Is it debt free (as in housing and other costs are covered), or tuition free?

If debt free, I’d feel very fortunate to attend a school as good as Lehigh for free.

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What are your kid’s longer term plans after college. Sometimes the upfront investment is worth it, even if it means debt (really you should be looking at the net differential).

Lehigh is a fine school, but it is not for everyone. Has your child visited the school? ED to me should only be used if you are pretty certain that the school is both an academic and social fit. Is the tuition waiver conditioned on applying ED and then is it further conditioned on maintaining certain academic standards. Is it even for all 4 years?

Maintaining optionality is very valuable. This applies to applications (ED is eliminating optionality) and the school attended. MIT (if you child gets in) will offer broader options as to jobs and location than Lehigh for the average student.

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I’ve told our story on other threads, but it may be helpful here too, even if not directly applicable to Lehigh. My twins who went to college in 2018 had essentially identical stats (top 1-2% of the class) and S18 attended a T20 college while D18 turned that down for a full ride cohort scholarship at a T100 college. Having ~$100K left in her 529 was hugely valuable in supporting her for three years after college as she pursued her dream to become a ballet dancer. And there were plenty of opportunities open to her friends in that cohort who were all very talented (her freshman year suitemate won a Rhodes scholarship).

What I did notice is the difference in aspirations after graduation, with S’s friends pursuing high status positions in top coastal cities, while most of D’s friends were more interested in lifestyle and weren’t as driven by ambition and status (many continued living near to college, D has now moved back there). Three years on there are quite a few of S’s friends earning $100K+ and working 50-60+ hours per week while none of D’s friends are doing that.

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When the question was first asked, it was generic. MIT wasn’t mentioned. MIT is one of the few schools I think may matter.

Yes, it’s not like Lehigh. Right or wrong I think more RPI or maybe Case Western.

The financial aspect is undeniable. No matter how better the career stats, if it’s room and board only bs full cost, that’s near $300k. So that’s $400k to earn the $300k.

Fit matters. $ are part of fit.

Kids often go to - likely not the best fit - they don’t even seek fit but rather cost or location. Think the kid who grows up only wanting the state flagship - is it really the right school?

Then we don’t know the goal.

Is it a PhD and for industry or academia ?

Is it just work ?

How would they pay for MIT ? Is it a loan and how large - which adds even more costs if you can even find that loan.

Is MIT worth it - assuming they got In?

You likely wouldn’t know til you retired - did life go well ?

All of these are hard to quantify but financially, you would start in a deep trench.

Now if the question is RPI at $50k and we can afford it with no loans or Lehigh at $20k, maybe there’s a different answer. Maybe not.

The OP posted this:

@tsbna44 @DadTwoGirls Your responses have been incredibly helpful and insightful, thank you! I’m inquiring on behalf of an academically excellent student deeply involved in cutting-edge tech development. Their top choice is MIT, but the net price calculator indicates potential financial challenges

This is what I saw last night - Lehigh vs the unknown

OP- would be super helpful if you’d clarify why Lehigh (kid lives within commuting distance AND qualifies for a special scholarship/Tuition Assistance so it would be free) AND why MIT. And what the net price calculators show as the family’s contribution for MIT– or Princeton for that matter, one of the most generous “meets needs” schools in the US.

Otherwise we’re just wasting your time.

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I think there are two challenges here - first, is the student actually “likely” to get into MIT, their dream school. Absent certain accolades (and, certainly, this student may have them), “likely” isn’t a term I typically think of when I consider MIT admissions - I know too many absolutely stellar students (with the requisite high level ECs) that have been rejected to consider MIT a given for 99% of kids who apply. The second issue is how much of a financial burden MIT would be - personally I think a few loans to attend MIT are worth it (definitely the direct student loans and maybe a bit more than that) but if you start looking at sums that would exceed the $60k max for parents it would be a hard no from me. You don’t want loans to be life limiting - cutting you off from opportunities because you face a big monthly nut.

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And the third challenge- we don’t know the circumstances around Lehigh. Why Lehigh and not UMD, UIUC, RPI, U Conn, Rutgers?

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I often wonder in these cases and yes, I’m a value guy -

but would it be better to be turned down by one (presumably it would be MIT).

The problem with multiple college acceptances - especially when the finances are so vastly different is - multiple college acceptances.

On paper, in advance, it’s always nice to have choice.

But choice becomes hard!!!

When you buy a car, there are a million choices - do you want this or that and this gives you that but cost more. Lexus dealers - years, ago I don’t know today - all the dealers in one city would get together and say - we’re all going to spec our cars today. So if there’s 10 dealers in the NYC area - they’re going to have just two specs - one with and one without nav. The only thing differentiating your stock from the competing dealer’s 10 miles away was color.

Sometimes, less is more!!!

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