Decide between Gettysburg [$40k], Dickinson [$40k], HWS [$44k], and Kenyon [$68k] for History/Pre-law

Compare College Acceptances
, , ,
1

For background, D26 goes to a private Catholic high school where she is currently ranked 1/184. She has completed 4 AP classes with at least a 4 on the test and 3 dual enrollment classes through the midpoint of senior year. She has another 3 AP classes this year and 2 more DE classes the last semester of senior year. She prefers a small LAC that’s not inside a big city, which all of these meet. She’s not currently interested in joining a sorority or the party culture. She is looking to major in history and go on to law school afterwards.

After all application results have come back, D26 is considering 4 acceptances.

Dickinson College - $40k net

Gettysburg College - $40k net

Hobart and William Smith Colleges - $44k net

Kenyon College - $68k net

Between 529 savings and parent contribution from what was already being spent for HS tuition, we think we can stretch and cover $40k per year without loans.

We have visited all but Kenyon already, but based on net price, we are thinking Kenyon would be the first one off the list. Of the tours of the other three colleges, she liked HWS the most, followed by Dickinson, and then Gettysburg.

Some other notes to consider:

HWS and Gettysburg have grades of A+, which helps raise gpa and help for applying to law school (or so I have read).

She very much enjoyed working with the admissions counselor at HWS. It felt like they were recruiting her and wanting her to go to HWS as much as she was wanting to go there. In her words, “They actually want me.”

With a total of 7 AP exams and 5 DE classes, hopefully she can get credit for some good classes to make the rest of her college experience easier (for potential 3+3 arrangements, reduced time to graduate, or for higher gpa).

Dickinson and Gettysburg are about 2 hours away, HWS 4.5 hours away, and Kenyon is just over 7 hours away.

We are going to an accepted student day at HWS in April and looking to visit Dickinson and Gettysburg for personalized tours that month as well.

Overall, her first choice is HWS. I would prefer Gettysburg or Dickinson as their history departments are known to be pretty good along with a good track record of graduates moving on to law school. I’m thinking we could probably appeal to HWS to try and match the net price of the other two as they are similar level schools.

Lastly, she is waitlisted at Williams College, Swarthmore College, Davidson College, and Washington and Lee University but we are planning as if she doesn’t get into any of those.

We would appreciate any insight, experiences, and recommendations anyone can give as we look to settle on a final choice. Thank you so much!

4 Likes
2

I wouldn’t worry about HWS and law school. As long as she does well enough there in terms of grades, it will then be her LSAT score that does almost all the rest of the work in determining where she is competitive, and that doesn’t depend on the college you attend.

One thing I do think would be worth checking is how many people actually graduate with a History major, because that sort of indicates how people voted with their feet when exploring different majors. You can get that from NCES, and here is the latest cohort for HWS:

23 graduating History majors out of 356 total is about 6.5%. I’d consider that a solid number for a LAC.

OK, and then I get:

Dickinson 8/460 (1.7%)

Gettysburg 34/554 (6.1%)

Kenyon 19/374 (5.1%)

The only of these that stands out to me as a bit of a red flag is Dickinson. If Dickinson was her favorite in every other way this could be surmountable, but since it isn’t . . . not sure about that.

OK, so personally, everything to me is lining up solid for HWS, particularly if you can shave off the last bit of cost difference. You can still do the revisits, but if it stays on top and you end up OK with the price, I would not worry about it academically or for law school purposes.

3 Likes
3

If a professor gives you an A+, LSAC will recalculate your GPA even if the school uses a 4.0 scale if the A+ is on your transcript.

5 Likes
4

My S26, who isn’t pre-law but is interested in history and politics/poli sci (so maybe overlapping interests?), absolutely loved Dickinson when he visited. Lots of interesting opportunities for politics majors, plus he really liked the campus. He didn’t end up applying, because he got into his ED school, but had that worked out differently, Dickinson would have ranked high on his list, I think.

We looked into HWS, but some things we read about the party culture dropped that school from the list. Then again, we didn’t spend a lot of time looking into it too closely (the preliminary list was long enough as it was).

Re: the numbers of graduating majors cited above, I always take those numbers with a grain of salt. Those stats don’t include second majors (so if a student lists major A first and major B second, they won’t get counted in major B), and it also doesn’t include students who take classes in a given department as a minor, or perhaps a major in another department with cross-listed classes, etc. They also don’t include students who are (for example) education majors but need to take classes in a particular content area for certification but still aren’t counted as majors in that content area.

3 Likes
5

As I don’t have experience with it personally, I was reading that the LSAC does take into account A+ scores, giving them a 4.33 weighted value. The other schools, it doesn’t look like A+ are even an option to be given.

Why is Your LSAC Cumulative GPA Different from Your Normal Degree GPA? Why is Your LSAC Cumulative GPA Different from Your Normal Degree GPA?

6

Yes. My older daughter is a double major at Rice. Her history teachers have given her A+’s even though Rice caps their GPA at 4.0 so her Rice GPA is 3.98 but her LSAC GPA for law school would be over 4.0 if they’re on her transcript (which I believe they are).

Law school applications have gone up substantially in the past several cycles so the admissions trends have also changed.

GPAs and LSAT scores have also gone up so T14 schools are looking more closely at extracurricular activities while in college and work history, more so than in the past.

1 Like
7

If I get a vote, I say Dickinson. Fabulous college punching way above its weight. Super cute town. Beautiful surroundings. Arctic studies! I don’t think it matters in this case how many history major there are. They have a solid department.

5 Likes
8

Thank you for that clarification! I didn’t know that schools could give a grade that wasn’t listed on their grade scale. I have read of gpa inflation, so having good ECs in college seems to be a priority in addition to having a good GPA and LSAT. With that, HWS did make it a point to highlight that their career center was good about finding internships. We will have some work to do to figure out what law schools will consider good ECs.

9

IMO, history professors are aware that many of their students may go to law school so they may give an A+ (if deserved) while other teachers may just give an A even if the student’s number grade was a 98 because they may not think it makes a difference. This is just my opinion.

Good ECs include leadership while in college, impact, differentiation etc. Based on my research, for T14 schools it seems to be going the same direction of undergraduate college admissions except the LSAT is a much bigger factor than the SAT/ACT.

1 Like
10

Yes, A+ = 4.33 for the purpose of recalculating college GPA for law school admission, according to Transcript Summarization | The Law School Admission Council . Of course, the student has to do what it takes to earn A+ grades, which may vary based on college and instructor.

2 Likes
11

I would take out Kenyon due to price. From the other three, I would likely focus on Dickinson and Gettysburg which both have outstanding history departments. Go with the one that feels like the better fit.

Please do not focus on how aggressively a college admissions department is recruiting your D – she will never see or have anything to do with admissions once she accepts an offer from a college.

4 Likes
12

https://schools.lawschoolnumbers.com/ can give you an idea of what college GPA and LSAT score makes one a competitive applicant to various law schools.

2 Likes
13

Dd applied to HWS, Dickinson and Gettysburg. HWS was the most expensive. Dickinson FA when we said there are not enough money gave us private loan… That was pathetic. On the other hand, Gettysburg gave DD some special top scholarship. (I need to look up name.) That allowed some special connection for internships with government. That can be very valuable for prelaw. Since DD was premed, in the end she attended another school. However, Gettysburg was at the very top of our list and stayed in our hearts.

4 Likes
14

Just a quick additional note on majors, it is true things like second majors can be a variable, and of course this is going to vary a bit year to year as well. To help control for that a bit, it happens that this source allows you to look up both first and second majors for the 2022 cohort:

https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/jonboeckenstedt/viz/BachelorsDegreesAwardedin2022/Dashboard1

In this case, for History I get (first, second, total):

Gettysburg: 39/3/42

Kenyon: 26/7/33

HWS: 27/3/30

Dickinson: 7/4/11

This of course is broadly consistent with the above data for a later cohort.

Of course I cannot emphasize enough this shouldn’t be seen as a definitive ranking of where it would be good to study History as an undergrad, and we in fact could only speculate about why History is a relatively more or less popular major at certain schools.

My point is really just that I see nothing in this to suggest HWS would be a bad choice for History, assuming it is a good choice overall.

2 Likes
15

To add another opinion, HWS should not be disfavored among the three schools in serious contention based on concerns regarding its history department. Moreover, for added dimension, HWS offers an excellent architectural studies program, an area of study that may be of interest to some students of history.

As a comment on Kenyon, its history program is flat-out excellent.

2 Likes
16

Yeah, the $28k price difference was a lot to us but then someone on the Kenyon board they appealed and got an extra $15k which may bring it back into the picture. It wouldn’t hurt to ask I suppose.

2 Likes
17

Yes, I can confirm this, as a parent of a Kenyon history major (and a humanities professor myself). But the price difference is indeed significant, so asking to reconsider the aid package can be a good idea.

3 Likes
18

Absolutely. The worst that can happen is they politely say no.

1 Like
19

Another option is to encourage her to do the ECs she truly is interested in (whether that be working, or hobbies, or clubs, or volunteering, or sports or whatever.) This will result in ECs that she will be able to talk about with genuine enthusiasm, and that will make her genuinely happy.

7 Likes
20

Yep. One or two things done with true dedication is likely a better bet than a longer list of things done for show. Also will make for a much better college experience, which is nice.

I would also note you can actually take a break after college and before law school, and work, or possibly do another grad program or fellowship, or so on. I’d actually personally suggest you take that break anyway.

7 Likes