deciding between 2 job offers

<p>So I just got 2 job offers from two companies that I'll call X and Y. I'm a recent college grad, and I'm having a little trouble deciding between the two offers. They are both for systems engineering positions as I completed my undergrad major in physics.</p>

<p>companyX- its an aerospace company that rarely lays off employees and is a non-profit company. On a website where people posted reviews of their experience working there, alot of them said that because so few employees get laid-off and promotions are based on experience and not competence, alot of employees slack off and don't take their work seriously. However, I'm leaning towards this company at the moment since they offered me a full-time position where I can get my tuition reimbursed for my upcoming MSME program.</p>

<p>companyY - defense contractor known for its constant layoffs. They offered me an internship and may offer me a full-time position afterwards, but theres no guarantee. They said most previous interns were offered full-time positions. Based on what I heard, the people there are more friendly and helpful than at companyX. But based on my in-person interview with X, about 7 of the 8 people I interviewed with seemed nice and friendly. All 6 of the people at Y I interviewed with seemed friendly, but there wasn't much diversity among the employees. The work and projects they plan on having me work on is slightly more interesting than what companyX is offering. Promotions are based on competence</p>

<p>So what I'm debating here is whether its worth it to take a chance on a company that they'll offer me a full-time position afterwards. Or take the sure-thing, but risk being in an environment where it would be tempting to slack off. I know that as a recent college grad with no work experience in engineering. I'm concerned about the frequent layoffs, especially for a recent grad like me in the terrible economy. In terms of long-term career goals, I want to work as an AE/ME, which is why I really want the tuition reimbursement plan to get my MS in AE/ME.</p>

<p>Congratulations. Most are finding it hard to get one job offer, yet alone two. Definitely go with company X. I mean, you realize how huge of a difference it is to have a full-time job vs. an internship right? Maybe if it was 1999 I would go with company Y, but in 2010 you MUST go with company X right now.</p>

<p>Are you already admitted to the MSME? If you're heading to grad school in the fall, then the internship is fine. Get the full-time there or interview for a full-time position after you graduate with the MSME, this time in a better economy and with that work experience.</p>

<p>If grad school is just something you're planning on doing some time in the future, then right now you need a job not an internship.</p>

<p>My vote is for company X. Given the current economic state can you really afford to roll the dice on a "Maybe we will offer you a job"? just my 2 cents.</p>

<p>Will you get a security clearance if you work for Y? If you get one and get laid off it will make finding another job much easier. If you get one, my vote would be on Y.</p>

<p>Working at X, where a lot of people don't care and just slack, will do one of two things to you - cause you to look for a new job or result in you succumbing to the same apathy. You might say to yourself "well, I'll stand out from the crowd and be a great worker." This might last for a few weeks; once you realize that very few to no people actually care about what you're doing, you will get by just fine putting in less effort you will become part of the "don't care" crowd.</p>

<p>Thanks very much for all the replies. I really appreciate it.</p>

<p>"Are you already admitted to the MSME? If you're heading to grad school in the fall, then the internship is fine. Get the full-time there or interview for a full-time position after you graduate with the MSME, this time in a better economy and with that work experience.</p>

<p>If grad school is just something you're planning on doing some time in the future, then right now you need a job not an internship."</p>

<p>Yes, I've already been admitted to the MS program. Again, I was really concerned about having to pay my way thru the MS , which is why companyX's offer is so attractive.</p>

<p>"Will you get a security clearance if you work for Y? If you get one and get laid off it will make finding another job much easier. If you get one, my vote would be on Y.</p>

<p>Working at X, where a lot of people don't care and just slack, will do one of two things to you - cause you to look for a new job or result in you succumbing to the same apathy. You might say to yourself "well, I'll stand out from the crowd and be a great worker." This might last for a few weeks; once you realize that very few to no people actually care about what you're doing, you will get by just fine putting in less effort you will become part of the "don't care" crowd. "</p>

<p>During the internship, I won't get it right away. In fact, one of the previous interns didn't get a full-time offer afterwards because he/she wasn't able to get a security clearance. I'm actually very concerned about the not caring about work and just slacking off. Maybe the problem with this isn't as bad as what I heard from that website. </p>

<p>Perhaps I could try contacting some alumni from my school who now work at X and see what their opinion about that is?</p>

<p>One comment about the tuition reimbursement program. You really want to work at a company that has a great continuing education program, but not one that is a tuition reimbursement.</p>

<p>Some companies require you to pay for your education, and then they reimburse you after you pass your class. Masters degree programs are expensive and that type of program requires spending $5,000 or so per quarter/semester on the assumption that the company is good about reimbursing the class later. Other companies pay it up front for you, so you don't have to pay tuition in advance. The later is much better.</p>

<p>You'll also want to look at annual caps on how much they allow each year for expenses. Some companies do $1,000 (which is worthless), some $5000, some $15,000, and some unlimited.</p>

<p>Tuition reimbursement is often trumpeted on cc. However, the difficulties with it are not.
A change in tax law (as happened in the 1990s) and companies stop offering it. Don't get a B or higher? Then no reimbursement. Oh, you have to go to only one of these two urban schools at night, but you live in the suburbs and they are the opposite direction against traffic and since you're on salary you're expected to work 50 hour work weeks... It may not be as practical as it sounds. Also you may have to pay taxes on the benefit.</p>

<p>I would go with Y if you can get the security clearance. With your gained experience with Y company, after a year I'm sure you will be more competitive than the rest in the job pool</p>

<p>Definitely company y - the defense sector.</p>

<p>Why? If you want to work in AE related fields, the best bet for a recent grad is to join the defense sector.
They lay off people because there are budget cuts in some years, and sometime they just don't need that many people.</p>

<p>But why is defense sector, and AE always making money? Well think about the satellite. Their life cycles are about 1 year - 5 years.
They need to be replace rather quickly.</p>

<p>Also, promotion is based on competency. This is even more challenge. Look at your future collauges. If they survived, meaning that they are really good, and are bringing money to the company. You will learn a lot from them.</p>

<p>For a new recent grad, being in an non-profit organization can be a bad thing. You are not worried about laid off - you get lazy and when you move to another company you may suffer.</p>

<p>Really. Go to y, and get the experience. People would hire you if you put that name on.</p>

<p>"Oh, you have to go to only one of these two urban schools at night, but you live in the suburbs and they are the opposite direction against traffic and since you're on salary you're expected to work 50 hour work weeks... It may not be as practical as it sounds. Also you may have to pay taxes on the benefit. "</p>

<p>Actually companyX told me that I can attend my school twice a week and then work for them about 20 hrs/wk. School is about 20 minutes from companyX</p>

<p>"I would go with Y if you can get the security clearance. With your gained experience with Y company, after a year I'm sure you will be more competitive than the rest in the job pool"</p>

<p>Well like I said earlier, one previous intern wasn't converted to a full-time employee because he/she wasn't able to get a security clearance. What determines whether one can get a security clearance? Perhaps I should ask companyY about that</p>

<p>"Definitely company y - the defense sector.</p>

<p>Also, promotion is based on competency. This is even more challenge. Look at your future collauges. If they survived, meaning that they are really good, and are bringing money to the company. You will learn a lot from them.
For a new recent grad, being in an non-profit organization can be a bad thing. You are not worried about laid off - you get lazy and when you move to another company you may suffer.
Really. Go to y, and get the experience. People would hire you if you put that name on. "</p>

<p>That's what I was thinking, and its a very good point. In my previous internships with non-aerospace companies, I often got boring assignments and got lazy, even though I was not lazy at all as a student in school. But again, I don't like to take any chances of not getting a full-time offer afterwards from Y. That's especially the case when I consider that promotions from Y are also probably based on how well I am with office politics. I can tell you that I'm not the best at that..Anyways, would I really be that much more desirable to employers if I have just an internship with Y? I suppose just having some work experience in aerospace/defense is that much better than none?</p>

<p>Also, I don't know if this matters, but I did ask companyX to expedite the process to give me an offer since Y gave me an offer with a sooner deadline. At the time, I was under the assumption that I probably wouldn't get a full-time offer after the internship for Y. It was just a few days ago, when I called Y to give me a deadline extension for their offer, that they told me most interns became full-time workers.</p>

<p>Should I ask some alumni from my school if they think companyX is a good place for recent grads like me?</p>

<p>Follow your heart.....lol</p>

<p>Don't know what my heart says. I really can't decide between the two. There's pros and cons to both.</p>

<p>Anyways, I should also note that when I interviewed with Y, it was for a full-time position. So thats why I was very thrown off when they gave me an internship, not a full-time offer. Thats why I initially thought Y wasn't interested in me. But this past week, they followed up with me a couple times after they sent out the offer and told me the people I interviewed with were impressed with me, but just a little concerned with my lack of background in EE (the position uses a little EE)</p>

<p>PurdueEE hit on the key issue that will affect your final decision: security clearance. </p>

<p>One of the main things the US government takes into consideration when granting a security clearance is your credit worthiness. If you have debt, it becomes difficult to grant you one. The more sensitive your work, the more your financial background is scrutinized. Another one is being an American citizen, obviously. Criminal background, your relationships, etc. all that is checked.</p>

<p>What else exactly goes into the process, I have no clue. I obtained my security clearance despite being foreign-born (but naturalized citizen) and I managed to work on advanced, expensive equipment while working for uncle Sam.</p>

<p>If you get that security clearance, you become very attractive to many companies out there.</p>

<p>Well, here you go, Wikipedia to the rescue: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_clearance#United_States%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_clearance#United_States&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I personally wouldn't care to work for the government, but that's just me.</p>

<p>1) X is a non-profit and bad culture. You won't like it there. </p>

<p>2) You should worry about expanding your resume. If you work hard, I'm sure company Y will retain you or you can go else where better after that. Company X makes no sense unless you have no other better offer.</p>

<p>Is your MSME a coursework-only degree or a thesis-based degree? If it is the latter, you may not have to worry about paying for it as much as you think because there is at least some chance that within the first semester or two, you will get funding. Of course this greatly depends on the school, and I believe you mentioned in a different thread that you will be going to UCLA, where funding it kind of tight right now.</p>

<p>Honestly, if you truly like the job at company Y better, I would go there, even if it is just an internship. They likely did that either to save money or to give you a trial run since you aren't technically an engineering major but show promise anyway. As long as you work hard and network, you ought to get the full-time offer. I worked as an intern at a defense contractor in previous summers and at one point, they called me back to offer me a job without me even asking. As for the clearance, that will depend on a lot of things, but if you are a native-born American citizen with good credit, no criminal record, and no other suspicious activity (if you have ever traveled to DPRK, for example, you would not get one) or connections, then you ought to not have too much of an issue getting a clearance.</p>

<p>At this point, it'll be either the coursework-only or project/research-based (non-thesis) MS. Yes, I would have to go to UCLA where it seems impossible to get funding </p>

<p>"As long as you work hard and network, you ought to get the full-time offer. I worked as an intern at a defense contractor in previous summers and at one point, they called me back to offer me a job without me even asking."</p>

<p>Well it depends alot on office politics skills too, right? Well thats one of my greatest weaknesses</p>

<p>"As for the clearance, that will depend on a lot of things, but if you are a native-born American citizen with good credit, no criminal record, and no other suspicious activity (if you have ever traveled to DPRK, for example, you would not get one) or connections, then you ought to not have too much of an issue getting a clearance"</p>

<p>I have good credit, no criminal background, etc. My only concern is that I heard it also depends on one's emotional, mental, and psychological history. I used to have severe depression and saw many counselors. I still have minor depression as of now, but I'm not suicidal, like I was before.</p>

<p>Also, I did ask X to expedite the hiring process, like I mentioned before. Would they get ****ed off if they did that just for me to decline their offer? As far as I'm concerned, they could've taken another month or so to give me the offer if I hadn't asked them to expedite the process due to my offer from Y</p>

<p>Sure they would get angry, but lets face it, if you get a job elsewhere, it sounds like you wouldn't ever want to work there anyway.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have good credit, no criminal background, etc. My only concern is that I heard it also depends on one's emotional, mental, and psychological history. I used to have severe depression and saw many counselors. I still have minor depression as of now, but I'm not suicidal, like I was before.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>If you have seen a mental health counseler in the last 7-10 years, you'll be required to release the medical records to the government for them to review as part of the security clearance check. They'll interview your mental health professionals that you have seen and try to determine if your mental health state poses a national security risk.</p>

<p>With that said, lots of engineers have had depression at one point and have had it treated. If it was several years ago and you got it treated, I don't see that it will rule out security clearance for you. I'm not trying to discourage you at all, but want to let you know up front how intrusive obtaining security clearance is. Top secret is far more intrusive than secret clearance.</p>