Deciding between UMass Amherst [$40k] and Penn State [$60k] [pre-law]

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hey all, with pretty much just ivies left next week, my options so far are between umass amherst and penn state (oos for both). for context, i’m on the pre-law track and applied as english/legal studies/crim justice/political studies to all my schools. if anyone has insights into either of these schools, please share!!

some details below:

umass amherst: commonwealth honors + 18k scholarship (coa 40k~), college of social and behavioral sciences (social thought and political economy, although thinking of switching to legal studies)

penn state: accepted to university park (main campus) as a criminology major but coa is 60k+ which is honestly really expensive, although my parents are willing to pay. although their criminology program is ranked #5 in the nation so that’s a bonus i think?

i’m also looking at community college because california has some good cc options, but i’m pretty torn because i want the traditional 4-year undergrad experience before going to law schools, but just not sure if either of these schools are worth. i also really want to go to school on the east coast and that was one of my main factors when applying since i applied pretty much all out of state. any advice is appreciated!

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I can’t see any reason to pay half again as much for Penn State over UMass Commonwealth Honors, especially for a student who hopes to attend law school ($$$).

I think you’re overestimating how helpful majors like “legal studies” and criminology are for pre-law. A major like social thought and political economy is generally better. Criminology is fine if you want to go into law enforcement or do sociological research, but it’s not advantageous for a law school applicant.

The UMass offer is only slightly more than a UC would cost in-state, so if you want to go east, that sounds like a terrific option. A Commonwealth Honors offer is a score, congrats!

I’d be weighing UMass vs any four-year in-state options you may have, vs. CC-to-UC depending on the importance of saving money. But if you’re under enough financial pressure to be considering CC, I wouldn’t remotely consider dropping an extra 20K+ on PSU over UMass, especially since you have an Honors offer at UMass but not a Schreyer offer at PSU. The rank of the criminology major in no way justifies that expense.

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I would lean toward UMass because of the 5 college consortium. Amherst College is one of the very best liberal arts colleges in the country with small classes and top professors. Its distance from the UMass campus is about the same as going from one end of the Penn State campus to the other. A university shuttle bus makes it easy to get there. It’s basically a bike ride away. Students can take 2 courses per semester at any of the other colleges in the consortium. Smith College, a women’s LAC in nearby Northampton, offers additional course options with top professors.

My GS is currently an OOS freshman in the Honors program at UMass. He is very happy with his decision to go there. Although he’s a quieter kid, he has made a group of friends. Participation in an extracurricular helps - in his case, club lacrosse. The food is great, living up to its reputation as best in the country. The honors dorm is great and he will be allowed to continue living there next year with a new roommate even though that roommate is not in honors. Very pleased with his classes and professors. The campus is easier to get around than he expected.

Amherst is a great college town with 3 colleges in it. Students everywhere. Add nearby Northampton and you have lots to do off campus - vibrant live music scene in big & small venues, lots of restaurants, Main Street with lots of neat shops, county fair every fall, museums, etc. There’s an 11 mile multi-use rail trail for biking, walking, and jogging which directly connects with other area bike trails, making endless possibilities. Skiing nearby and boating on the Connecticut River.

I too like the social thought and political economy major as preparation for law school. Better than legal studies IMO. Combine that with courses at Amherst College and upyou’ll have an unbeatable combination.

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Note that “criminology” is typically a specialized type of sociology (commonly with a research focus), while “criminal justice” is more of an applied major for those going into domestic non-specialty law enforcement.

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For choosing an undergraduate major or course work, does the area of law you may be interested in relate to any particular kind of undergraduate major? For example, patent or intellectual property lawyers commonly have engineering or science undergraduate majors.

https://lawschoolnumbers.com/application-prep#ugraduate has some other suggestions about undergraduate major and course work for pre-law students.

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thank you so much! penn state’s criminology was appealing because i spent all of high school volunteering with my local police department so that really piqued my interest in that field. but definitely helpful to put in perspective about how helpful it is for law school + the cost

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thank you!! super helpful to have perspective from your son’s experience and insight on the environment + consortium (honestly big reason why i applied to umass). out of curiosity, what’s your son’s major?

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You can always tack this certificate onto your UMass major: Criminology and the Criminal Justice System Certificate : Sociology : UMass Amherst I don’t really think you’d see a difference in the quality of foundational courses like these, between PSU and UMass. (Most certainly not an $80K+ difference!!)

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Biomedical Engineering.

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as of now, i’m interested in criminal and constitutional law, but also maybe working in federal agencies like department of justice/fbi
so i’d say most relevant majors would probably be most of the ones i listed above (english/poli sci/legal studies/criminal justice)

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oh interesting, i’ll take a look at this! thank you

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The FBI has many specialized roles for which particular college majors may be useful. For example:

https://fbijobs.gov/STEM

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thank you!! i’ll check this out, appreciate your help

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I’d not game a major for law school. If you choose against law school, neither of these majors will secure you a good future in most cases. But if truly a major you’d like then it’s ok.

If $60k is too much remove Penn State. If $40k is too much, depending on your states, you might find schools for $20-30k - so maybe neither is a good choice?

Good luck.

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Practicing lawyer here who worked for the DOJ for a while . . .

I completely agree of the two offers you mentioned, doing UMass with a Social Thought and Political Economy major (at least to start) is great. You really do not need to do something specifically legally related in undergrad, if anything that is a negative compared to a more general degree. Anything reasonably rigorous that interests you and where you can get good grades is a viable choice, and if I was going to give any specific advice I would just look for majors where there is a lot of difficult reading and writing.

I also think it is impossible to really know in advance what sort of law you will end up wanting to practice. In fact most of the civil law world is very unknown to people outside the profession, but there are all sorts of areas which can be intellectually satisfying, lucrative, and so on. Like some of the happiest attorneys I know do tax–I think people assume that must be boring, but they are basically doing a form of creative business consulting to help their clients optimize their tax posture. Very fun.

Community college to save on costs is also a perfectly viable choice. I know that may not be your ideal four-year college experience, but here is the thing–fast forward a bunch of years and you are looking at your first job opportunities out of law school. You would love to take some sort of cool public interest or government job where you would immediately get lots of responsibility and skip past the junior associate grind at a large private law firm (you can always lateral back into that world as a more senior associate later, although who knows, maybe you will make a career in public service).

But wait–you have this huge overhang of student loan debt that needs to be serviced. So you feel like you really can’t take the cool job, you have to go into the private firm grind so you can make enough money.

This dynamic is very common and it contributes to so many JDs quickly burning out and exiting the profession. And so you don’t want that to be you if you can at all avoid it.

OK, so back to the beginning–if going to CC for a couple years before transferring can save you a bunch of student loans, that is no small thing. I am not saying you have to do it, but I personally think something like the federal loan limits are a pretty good estimate of how much undergrad student loan debt is reasonable to service:

https://studentaid.gov/understand-aid/types/loans/subsidized-unsubsidized

If you would need a lot more in loans than that to make going to a four-year college right away a viable choice–like I said, just think carefully about how that could contribute to limiting your practical choices in the future.

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Of your acceptances, I agree with others. UMass is the better choice.

Just curious, as a CA resident, did you apply to any Cal States or UCs? If not, and you think attending college in CA would be good, the CC route is a good one that many CA residents choose.

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If CC is a serious consideration but you also would like the 4-year experience, take a look at Santa Barbara City College. My understanding is that it is very enmeshed with UCSB and that you can even live on/near campus. I think a transfer to UCSB is then possible, as well as a transfer to other UCs.

Tagging @Gumbymom for more details and to confirm/deny my understanding.

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Or if money is an issue, stat dependent, you can still apply to other less expensive four year colleges, all of which will get you to the same law school - which will depend on you, not your undergrad.

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@bellbellss

UC’s give priority to California community college transfers and yes, Santa Barbara City college is a common pathway for CC transfers to also get the 4 year university experience.

This discussion may help explain: Backdoor way into UCSB (2025 version)

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One thing to add to what’s been shared and taking financial into out of the equation- UMass and Penn State are very different types of college campuses. If you’re looking for a traditional college experience with football/sports/school spirit and alumni network - Penn State may be a better choice. But agree with others that major/social life and consortium of schools at UMass could be the right fit (and scholarship!)

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