Decisions, Decisions ...

[fishbowlfreshman]

<p>… or should I say “indecision?” Well … Here’s what I’ve narrowed my choices down to without bringing “name brand” into the mix. Actually, both drama schools are about on the same level prestige-wise.</p>

<p>Drama School #1
Pro:
Uber intense training with a good mix of influences.
Only one GE left that’s a piece of cake.
Never a class before 10:00 a.m. (7–8 hours of sleep?! What?! What?!)
Regular schedule.
One of my best friends is there.
Pretty campus.
Sweet facilities.</p>

<p>Con:
Showcase is only in NYC.
Tiny.
Isolated.
Only artists around.
Possible to lose track of outside reality.
Can’t live off-campus until third year.
Will cost approximately $20,000 more than Drama School #2 over four years that I’ll have to borrow from my mother. I do have it, but it’s currently locked up in CDs.</p>

<p>Drama School #2
Pro:
Uber intense training with a good mix of influences.
No more General Education … period.
Bicoastal Showcase.
Two good friends who are there.
Diverse student body.
Good location to make connections.</p>

<p>Con:
Six hours of class on Saturday.
Irregular schedule that regularly starts early.
Notoriously cold and aloof faculty.
Weirdness abounds in diverse student body.
Depressing campus.
Nasty food.
Rampant incompetence in the administration who don’t seem to care if you live or die … as long as they get their money.</p>

<p>State U.
Pro:
It’s free.
I’ll graduate in May, 2008. December, '07 if I do summer school.
I can work with older professional actors in a small market.
I could have an MFA by the time I’m 24 versus a BFA at 23.
Lots of amazing friends.
Large campus with diverse student body.
All the random knowledge I could ever want.</p>

<p>Con:
No guarantee I’ll get into a top MFA.
Roles could dry up.
Can’t do summer internships because of mid-August start.
I miss training.
Chance of boredom and complacency setting in
3/4 of my friends and my h/s drama teachers tell me I’m crazy for even considering staying.</p>

<p>Comments from the peanut gallery?</p>

[DramaPrincess]

<p>Of those, it sounds like you prefer school number one. Liking the atmosphere is really important and you don’t seem to be that fond of number 2, even if it has more intensive training. I’ve also found that good faculty can make all the difference - I get on spectacularly well with mine and they’re always happy to help out if I need it, be the problem academic or personal.
I’m a little confused though as to the state uni thing. I get the impression you wouldn’t be studying a BFA MT if you went there but you would hope to do an MFA in it afterwards?</p>

[fishbowlfreshman]

<p>The state school is a BA in Theatre. Typically, those going for an MFA have gotten a BA of some kind though it is still possible with a BFA. The problem is, most of the top MFA schools are now mostly taking experienced older actors, so I could get left out in the cold since I’d be auditioning at the ripe old age of 21. I could do the MFA in Acting at my state school, but it’s just okay. Really, if I get a BFA in Acting, my long-range plan will be to get an MFA in Directing later in life so I can teach at the college/conservatory level.</p>

[NotMamaRose]

<p>fishbowlfreshman, as you asked, I think the best value of all is the State U, which is where you are now, right? And the tuition is FREE, which means NO debt, to speak of, when you graduate! That’s nothing to sniff at, especially for someone who sounds very interested in pursuing an MFA, which is going to cost!</p>

<p>Barring State U, I would say that School #2 sounds better than School #1 for a few reasons, and the lesser cost you mention is just one, but a significant one. Plus, the bicoastal showcase, which seems important to you. I am sure how the campus looks is important, but it is probably, in the end, far less important than being in a good place to make connections.</p>

<p>Sorry you asked? As you can see, people’s suggestions are going to be as diverse as they are. From what you have told us previously, however, your State U. situation sounds pretty darned good. </p>

<p>Whatever you do, you will be fine and a success. Best of luck, and let us know how you do and what you do!</p>

<p>NMR</p>

[ckp]

<p>One thing that I think is interesting about this board is often it is so much about getting into the school we want, but then we kinda forget the reason why we are going there in the first place. For you, it’s to ACT. What school, do you think, will prepare you the best to be a professional. </p>

<p>It sounds like you really enjoy the BA school, but it would be quite sad if in a year and a half you just missed intense training really bad…and I am assuming you are probably the darling of that theatre dept. (from what I have gathered from other posts, I could be wrong) and while it is really nice to be in that situation, it is not really that preporatory for the harsh reality of professional theatre. Wouldn’t it be nice to be around people that support and challenge you to be a better performer always? People with as much passion for it as you have?</p>

<p>Also, do you want to teach? If so, the MFA route would be great for you. If not, it might be a really big reach of faith to put your hopes into an MFA (that wont actually happen for a few years, may get antsy) that isn’t garenteed) especially since you have already gone through some bumps in this process!</p>

<p>Between the other 2, ??? Although the campus is crappy, #2 seems to have other perks that outweight it, especially the money (man it would suck to be in the hole if you are going to be an actor!)
…but what you said about the teachers is REALLY scary. Teachers=the school, so I would actually say that if you can handle the money go with 1, but that is just my opinion.</p>

<p>Oh and when it comes to the problem of being stuck with just artist, think of it this way, most theatre programs tend to stick together anyway. My school is HUGE, yet I (and most theatre kids) am mostly friends with people within my 300 person school. It’s the whole similar interest thing (not to mention the reg school students are rich stuck up suberben girls in general, hehe) and the time. So, that may not be as big of an issue.</p>

<p>No matter what though, what will prepare you the best? You are (probably) gonna do this no matter what school you go to, so just know this isn’t the end of the world! </p>

<p>Good luck with choosing and keep me updated fishbowl! I really want you to be happy!</p>

[mtmommy]

<p>Fishbowlfreshman-You have quite a dilemma. It is a good dilemma, in obvious ways (you have great choices), but the schools are so different and where you would most likely “end up” could therefore be drastically different. What kind of college are you in right now and is it the right sort of school for you or is that why you are transferring? Also, what kind of background do you have? It sounds like you already have some decent education in acting, so did you go into college already prepared by your high school education or did you learn all this in your freshman year? I feel like I could help you more if I knew more about the situation. My instinct about the state school is that it sounds very alluring to graduate early, but you are right that being stamped with the wrong school can drastically harm your chances for some graduate programs. Many graduate programs rate applicants in several areas and when your degree is from certain types of colleges, you lose a LOT of points.</p>

[fishbowlfreshman]

<p>I’m already at State U. I was at a good BFA school last semester, but some things happened in my personal life right after I got there that left me feeling conspicuous and extremely uncomfortable with my surroundings – as if I were living in a fish bowl. So, I decided to leave. I transferred here this semester to finish off as many general education classes as possible and re-audition. I even set up my classes to satisfy my audition schools’ requirements. I was pretty much staying under the theatre department’s radar and just working my academic classes, but I got bored with life after my conservatory auditions, joined an improv troupe, and auditioned for a round of MFA directing scenes. That got me noticed by the theatre faculty and they decided they wanted to try to keep me here by offering to pay my room & board since I already get tuition from a state program. I’ve also been offered opportunities with the local theatre companies and the school topped it off by offering me conditional admission to the MFA Acting program on graduation. It’s a somewhat respected MFA with a classical emphasis and decent regional theatre connections, but the undergraduate BA is way under the radar. I wouldn’t say I’m so much the “darling of the department” as they’ve just made it plain they want to keep me here. The university as a whole is ranked pretty low and they’re trying to improve their reputation by throwing around lots of scholarship money and making grad school promises to good students to keep them in state and away from the Ivy League, etc. For instance, I know a math major who could have gone just about anywhere, but she stayed in state for the full ride and the ability to start working on her Masters while still in undergrad as long as she meets certain academic standards. </p>

<p>I have an arts h/s background and I’m exempt from undergraduate acting. If I stay, I’m going to focus on directing. The problem is that I love actor training and miss it with all my soul … to the point that, yes, I want to teach after I’ve hopefully worked in the great plays in regional theatre and maybe done some quality independent film. Anything beyond that is gravy … and possibly undesirable. I mean, who in their right mind would want to spend years being stalked by unscrupulous photographers for any amount of money? Talk about a fishbowl … Ckp is right that the question I have to answer (soon) is which path is going to make me the best actress I can be. That’s all you can really hope for in this business. Right now, I’m having “bird in the hand” thoughts. Bleh … If somebody else were asking about this, I’d probably be full of all kinds of advice, but things are a tad less clear when I’m advising myself! </p>

<p>I know that some types of grad schools give a lot of weight to where you went for undergrad, but does anyone know if it counts a lot for MFA auditions?</p>

<p>P.S. Some of the people that pm’d me thought I meant #1 is $20,000 more per year. To clarify, the difference is approximately $5,000 per year for four years. Looking around the forum, some don’t seem to think that’s a lot of money, but it is for me. :)</p>

[mtmommy]

<p>"The problem is that I love actor training and miss it with all my soul … " Since you want to be an actor and the state U can get you out there on the pavement faster, I would be in favor of that route in your circumstances, except for the above quote. You sound like a student whose main desire at PRESENT is the actor training (and the best actor training you can find), more than the actual BEING a working (i.e., starving) actor or being a director or being an academic, although all these other paths/goals are probably in your future as well. But there is no time like the present to get that acting training. Therefore, I vote for one of the two drama programs. Of the two, I highly favor #1, although it is $5,000 more. Although this is a lot of money, it is impossible to know if you will end up qualifying for more money at that school later on. Also, a bargain is only as good as its usefulness. There are enough “red flags” in your description of #2, that I would not choose it myself nor would I advise my daughter to choose that path. BUT THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION . . . TODAY. It IS nice that you have options, though, as complicated as the options make your life right now.</p>

[Kellster]

<p>Your post reads like you like #1 the best so I say go there if you and your parents can find a way to afford it. The only problem there that I can see is that you could be replacing your fishbowl with a bubble. haha I have no idea what #2 is but it sounds like you won’t like it there. Neither would I. State U seems like it won’t help your cause much if you want to go to one of the best MFAs even though you are having fun. You seem smart. Don’t you want to be challenged? </p>

<p>I researched MFAs last year when I was searching for colleges because that is my eventual goal. I still have the emails I exchanged with some heads of acting saved. I won’t name them or their programs on the list since they were intended for me only but I will tell you who they are if you pm me. I sent emails to ten and only got four responses. Here is some of what the ones that did reply told me:

There are certainly some very good BFA programs out there with some good training. In general, I think a young actor should get a BA, especially if they think they want to go on for an MFA. A BFA should be a terminal degree, in that you shouldn’t need any more training after that in graduate school.
I encourage actors to get BA’s because I think it makes them more interesting people in general. I am not sure it is such a good thing to spend all of your four years in the rehearsal hall and in acting classes.
But, if you are interested in a BFA, the best program that I know of is the University of Evansville in Evansville, Indiana of all places. They are very well trained and have a really good reputation. I also like the BFA’s that come out of SMU in Dallas, Texas. Certainly Carnegie Mellon and University of Minnesota are good programs also.
As far as BA programs go, we really like to take folks out of the Brown and the Vassar programs. They are usually smart and interesting people.

Go Vassar! I still get mad when I think about how bad I messed up my Evansville and SMU auditions.

For our program it does not matter which kind of undergraduate degree you get. Ours is a program specializing in classic plays and consequently we seek actors who are more than usually literate (people who are good readers and are well-read) and who are possessed of a good liberal arts education. We also look for people who can play an instrument or sing and who have participated in athletics. However, these are general guidelines and, as I am sure you know, many fine actors do not meet this description.
I am not an expert on undergraduate programs (partly because our students come from a wide variety of backgrounds and no one undergraduate program dominates).

Here at ### we choose the ten most talented actors we can find who have a Bachelor’s degree regardless of where they went to undergrad school or what they majored in. We have taken B.A. students BFA students, chemistry majors and political science majors, to name a few. Personally, experience tells me that actors with broad backgrounds tend to be more interesting than those who have only pursued acting - but again there are exceptions to that. Also many BFA programs turn out actors who have been trained badly; people who know some tricks but don’t know how to work from their deep selves. So, I can give you nothing definitive other than an actor who knows something of the world and has had interesting experiences to draw from is likely to be more original than someone who doesn’t or hasn’t.

Our graduate actors come from all types of programs both BFA and BA, in theatre (mostly) but also as English, History and even Science majors. I suggest that you pursue a solid general education BA. Choose the major you want. Learn about as many things as you can - in other words, get yourself a very well-rounded education. Since you know that you want to pursue an MFA, there is no point in receiving a BFA first. Both are pre-professional degrees but, in my experience, graduate level actors train professionally much better than college age students. In any event, everything you learn in college will help you with your acting down the line. You can major in Drama but still take classes in philosophy, art history, English, geology, or whatever sparks your interest. At ####, we believe strongly in the BA followed by an MFA.

However, here is the most important one of all that tells me you should leave State U:

I always tell my students: choosing a program is like buying shoes, except you only get one pair. Always go for quality first - those shoes will have to carry you a long way and you don’t get to trade them in.

I hope that helps!</p>

[fishbowlfreshman]

<p>

You seem smart. Don’t you want to be challenged?

Ouch … but thanks. Duly chastised, indeed. Yeah … I’ve pretty much been acing my classes this semester, but I’ve barely studied. It’s like I can pay attention, take notes, put them in a Word Document, and all is well come test time as long as I read them over the night before. Long papers have been few and far between and I only have one class where you really have to read the book. It’s no harder than h/s and - being completely honest - I kinda like it that way if it doesn’t involve something I’m passionate about. I’d make a terrible Vassarite. Acting, on the other hand, is a completely different story. If I don’t have a scary teacher knocking me around like a piñata and making me feel like I’m sitting on a grape at every misstep, I get bored. The only thing better is performing for an audience. Funny. I went looking through one of my old journals from 11th grade and found a snippet that kinda shows what I expect if I try to wing it in class (with the names changed to protect the guilty) … </p>

<p>ME
You’re the only one I know who loves his parents!</p>

<p>SCARY ACTING TEACHER
Carrie! What’re you doing?</p>

<p>ME
"I’m … ad…miring him?</p>

<p>SCARY ACTING TEACHER
No you’re not! Pick something better!</p>

<p>ME
You’re the only one I know who loves his parents! (Fails)</p>

<p>SCARY ACTING TEACHER
Sherry, Melissa, Jessica, Beth, what’re some of your verbs? … Carrie, do you like any of those?</p>

<p>ME
I liked…infuse.</p>

<p>SCARY ACTING TEACHER
Okay… So you’re infusing him. What’re you infusing the poor guy with?</p>

<p>ME
Umm…admiration! (shrinking)</p>

<p>SCARY ACTING TEACHER
You’re infusing him with admiration?! Do you often infuse people with admiration, Carrie?</p>

<p>ME
Maybe … subconsciously?</p>

<p>SCARY ACTING TEACHER
What the hell … I’ll let you work with it, but when you tell him that he’s the only one you know who loves his parents, you’d sure as hell better be infusing him with admiration or else we’re moving on to someone else!</p>

<p>I won’t get that kind of heat at State U in any major. That **** is bananas, but I want a lot more of it so it’s #1 or #2. I’m gonna have to go and have a long talk with the maternal unit … and wash some clothes. I like #1 better, but $20,000? I could live off that for a year! Meh … I need good shoes …</p>

[soozievt]

<p>From all you have written, it is clear that your passion and motivation seems to lie in a performance based program, a BFA degree program. You may be doing well in the BA at the State U but you don’t sound as if your heart is in it and you don’t sound sufficiently challenged and you seem to like challenge. Coasting by doesn’t seem to be your “thing.” I realize there are opportunities there for you and they are making the deal sweet but it doesn’t sound like the fit for your true passion and you’d be missing out on what it seems like you REALLY want. </p>

<p>You mentioned borrowing #20,000 from mom over four years but that you have money in a CD to pay it back. This is not a terrible scenario, in my view. If she is willing to do this and you know you have the funds to eventually give it back, it may work out after all. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

[Kellster]

<p>

I like #1 better, but $20,000? I could live off that for a year!

True, but you could also use that $20,000 to be HAPPY with your school and what you are doing for FOUR years. Good luck with your mom!</p>

[anothermom-w-q]

<p>Sorry to highjack this thread, but I just wish my D would make a decision. We are all miserable waiting for her to make up her mind. She is lucky in that she has some choices from which to select, but she isn’t ready to choose yet. Every day brings more mail from prospective schools. She has managed to send out no thank you letters to 5 schools, but she is still not ready to commit. Acck. I want to go buy a sticker for my back window on my car.</p>

[fishbowlfreshman]

<p>Well … This is a good peanut gallery. Do like I did and make a list of what she considers to be the pros and cons with each school by numbers without bringing “name brand” into it and maybe we can help. :)</p>

<p>Looks like it’s gonna be #1 for me. Stepdad to the rescue! I don’t even have to pay him back because he can use it as some kind of tax writeoff. I’m really gonna have to start being nicer to him … I’m still gonna wait until the end of the month to make it official in hopes that the pot will be sweetened a little. Thanks, everyone!</p>

[anothermom-w-q]

<p>Here’s to a sweeetened pot for you fishbowl! I think my D is going to have to go to the dart board to make a decision. </p>

<p>I started to type out her options and choices, but I really feel like it’s her baby to pursue. If she wants to come here and ask for advice, she can sign onto my screen name, but I think she needs to do this herself. I have asked a couple of people privately for their opinion, and I really value and appreciate the advice, but she needs to own this now. So I should go take a walk or something useful. Thank you.</p>

<p>Diana</p>

[wct]

<p>anothermom-w-q (Diana)</p>

<p>I just sent you a PM but forgot to ask which schools your D is deciding between. You can email me.</p>

[ckp]

<p>YAY fishbowel!! That is really exciting, and I hope that you LOVE your new school, I’m sure you will!! Best of luck from a fellow 2 timer.</p>

[soozievt]

<p>Fishbowl…I’m glad that you have come to a decision that makes you happy and that it all has worked out. From all you have written, this seems like the direction for you. Good luck on this exciting next step of our theater training!</p>