<p>Yes, it really looks for one year, not four.</p>
<p>[A</a> Look at the Facts, Comparing Penn’s Cost](<a href=“Submit My Documents”>Submit My Documents)</p>
<p>Hat, speculative but potentially. Also the GCs at the OPs high school might not care, it did not appear the the OP went to a private school. A public school in the midwest might not care if it was Penn or MIT. Who knows how it will turn out. Some parents advised that she should negotiate in good faith with Penn and if released be honest with MIT. The young lady could win the battle and lose the war. Difficult to say. I’m pretty mellow. The numbers are low (of kids who need or want to be released) and colleges and universities aren’t totally heartless. I imagine if people act within the confines of the stated information and are honest things will work out in the end. In my typically optimistic attitude I imagine if a kid said to Penn, I’ve changed my mind I don’t think I’ll be happy, I really want to be released, I never thought I’d get accepted and I really want to go to xxx instead the college would probably let the student go as they have dozens more standing in line that would like to attend. I hired a girl many years ago who called me two days before she was to start and said she didn’t want to come because she got a job with a shorter drive, same money etc. I was unhappy, but what are you going to do? Tell her she HAS to show up for work? I certainly wouldn’t tattle on her with her new job as there’s nothing to gain for me and they probably don’t care all that much. I get not applying to 2 places ED but after ED is it really all that important to the college for a small handful of kids at each institution to drop off?</p>
<p>I think people should be very suspicious of that “average” number. It’s easy to jump on that. Average=full ride to zero aid=“average” number. I got taken in by that for a long time. Our need-based aid did not approach “average” at any school.</p>
<p>Actually, I thought Marite’s link to Penn’s website was interesting, if for no other reason than 3% (3 students) whose parents made less than $20k received $0 FA last year from Penn. You should also note (as could any student looking at the site) that nobody gets a 100% free ride at Penn. At a bare minimum there is the student’s summer job contribution of $2,500. Also, Penn spells out on another page, that “no loans” means no <em>dependant student loan</em> (and by inference do not include loans parents made need to get to meet tuition).</p>
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I doubt if someone (OP) who describes their high school as “crappy” and being “full of minorities and poors” much cares about future applicants.</p>
<p>If everything she did was innocent and above-board, then she wouldn’t have requested removal of four posts. It’s as if she wanted to hide that she was eagerly anticipating MIT’s EA decision. As I’ve written before, it’s also beyond me why the mods went against their own stated policy and removed those posts. </p>
<p>Still, I believe MIT must know about that poster.</p>
<p>Marite, re post #1295 – I find that number highly suspicious, no matter how it is calculated. Funny things can be done with statistics, and you would have to look at the raw data. For example, the 93% might reflect every person in that income range who took any sort of federally backed loan, including unsubsidized Staffords or parent PLUS loans – but the “average” might be calculated only for those who were “eligible” for aid and received grants.</p>
<p>Note the titles on the columns - one column refers to the percent who were “offered aid” (sounds like they don’t even have to accept the federal loan in order to fit under the “offered” category) – compared to the average amount of the “award”. Maybe only those who were found eligible and offered grant aid are listed in the “average” – and the “total” probably includes work study, which is an offer of a job, not money. </p>
<p>The reason I’m suspicious is that there is no way the average family with income in the $120-$140K range qualifies for a lot of aid, UNLESS they have special circumstances, the most common probably be two children in college simultaneously. With 2 kids in college, the EFC is essentially cut in half, and now the $120K-$140K earner gets a financial aid package that is the equivalent of what is offered to $60-$70K earners in that income bracket – and at that level, the $28K award makes a lot more sense. </p>
<p>So my guess is that the high earners with 1 kid are not eligible for “awards” so they aren’t computed in the average, and the average $28K award is given to families who have 2 or more kids in college.</p>
<p>Of course, that isn’t what the average kid – or parent – would glean from the chart. But its the only way those numbers make sense. (I can attest from personal experience that a $28K financial aid package is ballpark for a $70K earner).</p>
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<p>Oh, that makes plenty of sense. I do not think that anyone (except perhaps Dstark 
) has the time to read every post in this massive thread. This also explains why a number of discussions have become circular as the discussions have moved back and forth between the OP’s case and other hypothetical cases.</p>
<p>or… to follow my post #1306, “Percent of applicants offered aid” might refer to individuals in that income bracket who applied for aid, as opposed to those who didn’t. Individuals who run their numbers in an online FAFSA calculator and learn that they have an EFC of $75K are unlikely to apply for aid in the first place. Those who have 2 or more in college will see that they ARE eligible and will be far more likely to apply and get aid.</p>
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<p>That’s true. A median range might tell a very different story – funny how the colleges like to use medians when reporting SAT scores, and means when it comes to their financial aid. A small number of very high end awards could really skew those average upward – and all it takes is multiple siblings simultaneously enrolled in college to radically change the income to aid relationship.</p>
<p>Curious…calmom…why can you use “ballpark” figures while others can’t? You got very indignant when I used my “$6,000 for Profile plus FAFSA EFC” number. Now you’re telling people what a $70,000 income EFC is (and was that for your FAFSA schools or your Profile schools?). If some people have to avoid generalizations than we all should have to.</p>
<p>Deja, someone early in this thread said that someone had posted on the MIT thread to her. I didn’t read the post so who knows maybe it was done in a manner that was threatening or there was fear of stalking, who knows. Most people told you that they felt her information in the profile and in her stats posts might make her identifiable and why those types of posts are brought down and this was a normal practice when too much personal information is posted about people that makes them identifiable. I trust the mods weigh their decisions carefully in light of their stated policy and don’t bring posts down unless there is a very good reason. You’ve commented on this procedure several times so clearly it continues to bother you, why don’t you just contact the mods and ask them what their policies are. I doubt they will converse about specific posts, but I’m sure they can clarify the general procedures for you so you don’t have to continually question the moderator’s motivations.</p>
<p>Different context, mummom.</p>
<p>And calmom, “high earners” as you put it, with one child, are eligible for awards (as in our personal situation).
Please be careful what you are putting out there.</p>
<p>While you analyze the FA details, I just want to add that I think ED is unnecessary for many. I’m one of those cautionary posters against ED for the very reason that I believe the students, not the colleges, should hold the power in the application process.</p>
<p>The problem that I have with ED is that too much of the decision making is compressed before you have a complete understanding of your FA options or even college selections.<br>
I’ve seen too many posts where students question whether they should apply ED or not. One Penn post was along the lines of “I don’t know what to do. Penn is really my third choice but I really want to use that ED option somewhere.” Students understandably strategize ways to increase their chances of acceptance. </p>
<p>I’m also concerned that the posts suggesting it is really easy to be released from an ED agreement with NO CONSEQUENCE whatsoever do not serve FA applicants well. The real consequence as Calmom and others suggest is that the ED option is off the table if a response deadline is looming, the HS guidance counselors may suffer complications, and ultimately the student loses a lot of power over the process, in my view. </p>
<p>What I’ve learned from so many wise posters is that a well thought out list to colleges where students can stand out as an applicant in some way makes the process infinitely more manageable (along the lines of Calmom’s Peter Van Buskirk’s advice though I didn’t know of his advice before S’s applied). Focusing on the unique strength of each applicant and crafting a well thought out list is a far more powerful strategy, and it is something that you have control over. It is much easier than trying to navigate the ED waters as a middle class FA applicant. The rush to get an early acceptance in hand at all costs seems unnecessary to me at least. S2 did not apply early anywhere, not even EA. </p>
<p>As an aside to Midmo, thanks for welcoming me back…I’m still a tentative poster as I don’t have anywhere near the experience of so many posters. I’m like one of those fair weather fans who tune in only at the end of the season.</p>
<p>To the generous posters thanks for the contributions…this has been a good thread.</p>
<p>Oh. How is it a different context, exactly? How can you predict someone else’s FAFSA amount? It seems to me more innocuous for me to warn people to expect to pay $6,000 or more on Profile than it is for you to put a flat out FAFSA number out there.</p>
<p>calmom:</p>
<p>I did not think this number suspicious as Penn is trying to keep up with Harvard, and Harvard’s commitment not to make families pay more than 10% of income if under $180k would result in finaid packages of up to $32k. So $28k for that income range sounded okay, even less generous than Harvard. Of course, Harvard could be misleading, too. :)</p>
<p>Mummom, its easy to pull the FAFSA numbers by running an online calculator. (which I did, before posting). </p>
<p>I suppose that the COA bumps up over the $60K mark, a lot more high-income people will get bigger packages – the net out of pocket is still the same. A family with a $130K income will have a FAFSA EFC of roughly $32K. $32K + $28K = $60K. - so maybe that’s how they are doing the math these days. Maybe Penn will increase its tuition and housing costs by another $10K or so over the next few years and then they can raise their financial aid even more.</p>
<p>Yea. So I don’t understand the $5,500 brush-off that student got.</p>
<p>mummon, FAFSA EFC is very straightforward and it is identical for everyone. Everyone puts in specific kinds of numbers, everyone answers the same questions, the information is analyzed the same way for all people and out pops an EFC. The methodology or calculation whatever you want to call it is the same for everyone. You can’t make generalizations about the Institutional Method because many colleges do not publish their calculators and not all colleges gather and analyze the same information in the same way which is why what colleges expect the family to contribute can vary for some people and can vary from college to college.</p>
<p>What assets does Penn look at? What you call a brush-off is quite common, because college financial aid offices tend to scrutinize assets pretty carefully. There a lot of situations that can very quickly push the EFC calculation sky high.</p>