<p>Xiggi I couldn’t agree more with everything you said.</p>
<p>Exactly, Xiggi. At some schools the acceptance:application ratio approaches 300% higher for ED than RD !
UPenn publishes the data – around 32% if memory serves me, and even higher for ED legacy applications.</p>
<p>I have said it 20 times I think in this thread alone: colleges will give preference to students that agree to non-discounted attendance costs. If parents and students will just grasp this simple reality, this thread could gracefully die …</p>
<p>Marite, you are right that GCs vary enormously in their degree of expertise on any topic.
However, we do have access to pick up a phone and ask a question directly to an admission or financial aid officer if we don’t know the answer and it has been my experience that many admissions and FA officers have been more than helpful. There are new things to be learned and changes year over year which is why there are some of us who attend yearly FA workshops, and go annually to college roadshows, open houses for counselors even though we may hear some of the same information over and over again. Are we ever going to know all of it and give the information off of the top of our head, I doubt it but can we access the information if we need to, absolutely.</p>
<p>I have students with various types of sitations, you name it, absentee parents, homeless, divorced parents, parents owing business, immigrant parents, etc.<br>
I can tell you first hand that I have seen various FA situations played out. I can also tell you that I explain all fully the pluses and minus of applying early decision, I know EOP, HEOP, TAP, Pell, SEOG,and various types of loans, Federal and institutional metodology, the types of stiuations that will warrant professional judgement from a school and the changes in the FAFSA for school year 2010-2011. I do advisory on the college process with my juniors and we spend 6 weeks talking about FA alone (and I have the 80 page document, that I give them before we start the discussions).</p>
<p>One of the posters sent me a document that they give their kids titled my affordabilty story, I gave her feedback on the document, and I now give the document to my students, to work our their FA scenarios. I also meet with parents regarding FA, and advise parents wo are applying ED to get an early read before commiting.</p>
<p>While colleges don’t per say “blacklist” schools, you must remember that counselors and college admissions representatives are developing business relationships just like any one else develops business relationships both in and outside or the workplace. I am sure that any of you may have severed relationships with vendors, co-workers, companies depending on how they have treated you are if they have not stood behind their product. You may have stopped shopping at a certain store or eating at a certain restuarant, because of the way you were treated or you felt a person was being disingenuous. It is the same thing with the GC relationship with the college. If the colleges feel that we are unreliable in our business practices and the way we advise our students, they essentially do not want to do business with us and our school, especially when there are thousands of other schools.</p>
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<p>Sophistry. </p>
<p>Great, have everyone apply ED and then no advantage. Problem solved … right?</p>
<p>Oh, that’s right. Tons of kids don’t apply ED because they need their full semester Senior grades to give them a half-way decent shot at the top colleges. Oh, and ED is when athletes and others with major hooks get in. Plus full-pays. So what does that leave? That’s right, the cream of the crop students needing financial aid facing off against like students. Wow! That’s some carrot being dangled!</p>
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<p>Coaches often ask recruited athletes to apply ED (for example). Unless we know that number to deduct, non-hooked kids are running quite blind to what advantage (if any) ED gives them.</p>
<p>Sybbie, do you try and ascertain whether a student/parents might fail to qualify for loans, or if a student/parent may be inclined to game the FA process after ED acceptance ? Does your opinion make its way to the college ?</p>
<p>CtYankee, I gather you are ranting, but beyond that I have no idea what about. If you can express yourself clearly, I might respond.</p>
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<p>I think he’s saying the admit rate for ED is largely comprised of athletes, full rides, hooked students and that the actual percentage of open slots in ED is actually substantially smaller. Within that small percentage are the uber brilliant kids who need aid and they are competing for a much smaller piece of the pie than the numbers express. Did I paraphrase correctly CtYankee?</p>
<p>Sybbie:</p>
<p>This is all very true. I was responding to some posts that basically said “our GC told us…” inferring that 1. what the GC said was gospel truth; and 2. all GCs are capable of giving out appropriate information.
Of course not. But how would a parent know whether GCs are providing accurate information or not? Not having to call adcoms and finaid officers all the time is precisely why there are GCs–well-trained or not, knowledgeable about their students or not, knowledgeable about the world of scholarship or not, about ED/EA, SCEA, rolling admissions as well as maintaining discipline, scheduling.</p>
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<p>Sure, and in the meantime, the badly advised students are suffering from the bad advice given out by ill-equipped GCs. If parents rely on GC’s erroneous information, can the GCs be sued?</p>
<p>Look, I’m not bashing GCs. We’ve had terrific ones. But even within one school, they can differ markedly, as I pointed out with an example from my school. And many of them are way overworked. Imagine if you will a great student from an inner-city school with a GC who spends most of his or her time dealing with discipline issues, trying to get the seniors into ccs, looking up sources of scholarships, etc… How much would one bet that the GC has often encountered the ramifications of ED vs. EA? Maybe the GC will say “I don’t know.” Or maybe the GC will provide erroneous information based on too-hasty a reading of the schools’ websites (we’ve done this on this thread). How would a family with a first-generation college applicant know that they’re better off calling the finaid officer?</p>
<p>Good lord what is going on now?</p>
<p>ooohhh, now we can spend 20 pages guessing who is masquerading as someone else!</p>
<p>EDIT: not meant as a judgmental comment on the moderator’s note!</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, we have to take “inventory” and see who is still here. Then we will know…</p>
<p>I’m still here. :)</p>
<p>Mo3B,
Your sub-groups are all expected to accept non-discounted college costs. Welcome to ED.</p>
<p>Just looked in the mirror I’m here and there’s only one of me dstark!</p>
<p>When doing “inventory”, keep in mind that many people don’t (can’t) post during the day:-)</p>
<p>Post #1357: “there are others of us who also feel this way, but also those who admire the OP for finding a supposed “loophole” and insist that there is no ethical issue because of the big bad colleges who have all the advantages.”</p>
<p>Deja, no one is saying that there is no ethical issue “because of the big bad colleges who have all the advantages.” Some of us are saying that there is no ethical issue because the colleges themselves allow for the release from an ED contract – it is explicitly and officially permitted by all the schools we have discussed. Furthermore, the colleges themselves seem to have no issues with the “ethics” of obtaining a release because the FA can’t be worked out. They seem to quite alright about it.</p>
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<p>Considering that there were repeated requests for moderators to explain why posts by the OP were deleted in other threads, it seems pretty clear that they are now providing an explanation why such posts were deleted, and hinting as to why the main character of this thread has been … absent. </p>
<p>Of course, we might not find an agreement on this speculation any easier to reach than reaching a consensus of ED. :)</p>
<p>momofthreeboys, lol</p>
<p>Xiggi, I was worried about you. </p>
<p>I would hate to miss your posts and wonder. ;)</p>
<p>I thought maybe Calmom got tired of being so reasonsed and created an evil Calmom.</p>
<p>Dad’o’2:
So, what about kids just having second thoughts?
There is a poster on one of the LAC forums who was accepted ED (with a full scholarship from a third party). Now he thinks he might rather go somewhere else because he really hates cold weather and has always wanted to live in California.
Personally, I believe that you honor your commitments. But is it too much to ask a 17-year-old to enter into a binding agreement and not be able to change his mind?</p>
<p>Some colleges do release students from ED just for the reason you bring up:</p>
<p>"Barbara Hall, associate provost at New York University, will also set unhappy students free. They are, after all, 17 years old, she says. This is not a legal agreement they have signed. If a student says to us, This is really where I thought I wanted to be, but I cant see myself there now, we release the student. It doesnt make sense to have students who dont want to be here.
<a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/education/edlife/strategy.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/04/education/edlife/strategy.html</a></p>