<p>My response to the kid was to copy/paste the agreement for the kid and tell him he already made his decision, end of story. </p>
<p>But the longer I thought about it, the less comfortable I became with my own self-righteousness. This kid wasn’t contemplating ditching Penn for MIT. He was wondering if he really wanted to spend 4 years at a small, cold, isolated school on the East Coast when he could be hitting the Santa Barbara beaches every afternoon. </p>
<p>Sure, he should have thought all of this out before he signed the agreement. Sure, it’s just the dreamy second-guessing of an immature high schooler. But that’s what got me thinking that it really is not right to expect an absolutely irrevokable commitment from these 17-year-old kids. </p>
<p>Nevertheless, if and when my D decides to submit an ED II application to her first-choice, by golly, she will follow through with her commitment cuz that’s just what you do!</p>
<p>(Hmmm. Multiple screennames. One of the members here has a name that sounds suspiciously like “Sybil” of the 16 personality fame. Nahhh, probably just a coincidence… )</p>
<p>Many colleges rescind acceptances if they discover bad faith. “If we find that you lied to us and applied to our regular action process holding an admission from an early binding place,” says Marlyn McGrath Lewis, admissions director at Harvard, “we would either not admit you or we would withdraw our offer.”</p>
<p>Some colleges, like Franklin & Marshall, exchange early-admit lists. Ms. Lewis says she throws away the lists sent to her. Who tips her off then? “We usually find out from alumni, classmates, lots of different ways. We have a couple every year and we withdraw their admission, not because we are enforcing some rule at another college, but because we can’t trust the student.”</p>
<p>Officials advise students who want a fallback lined up before January to apply to colleges with nonbinding early action programs.</p>
<p>This is exactly the type of environment that I work in. I have come to the realization, a long time ago that I do not have a job that runs from 8 am to 2:46 then out the door. It is precisely why I bend over backawards to assist these students because of the transformative power of education in their lives. I check Sybbie, Chicky’s mom at the door because their experiences, needs and kids vastly differ from the situation at my house.</p>
<p>Yes, I know you do. Except that not every GC is like you. The GCs in our school (all 12 of them–wow!) are extremely different among themselves. S1 started out with a veteran GC who was asked to become interim dean of another program. His senior year GC was a total newbie who, fortunately, consulted the old GC all the time and the former GC, fortunately, was willing to be consulted. Plus there was another veteran GC in the next office willing to chime in. That program was well known to be the very best in the high school, partly because of the advising structure; but other programs had far less knowledgeable GCs–as witness the experience of his friend. Her parents ended up doing all the research themselves, but they happen to be middle-class professionals, not immigrants like so many families in the school.</p>
<p>Naturally (like so many posts here) just sharing what’s already been posted before in this thread. But, if it helps the later arriving people, all the better. </p>
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<p>Not to be mean, but I have no interest in your response. Admittedly I surfed in curious as to what the heck people were STILL discussing. </p>
<p>It would be so sweet if someone that was on their soapbox telling us about the moral and ethical responsibility of a 17 year-old making once-in-their-lives college decisions with far from perfect information had multiple CC IDs to reinforce their ‘ethical’ points. That would be so rich. </p>
<p>I’m in and out on this thread as I get ready for both my boys to fly home today. I would love to change my screen name that I thought was so clever as a baseball reference and family reference (I grew up with my brother’s and I being referred to as the 3 S’s, now my family refers to my boys and my H as the 3K’s) but I can’t even remember my password for logging in!</p>
<p>With regards to public school GC’s, let’s not forget that they learn from their students’ experiences. Our public school GC office has become far more sophisticated from our experience with S1 to three years later with S2. It is full of very competitive students demanding all sorts of programs, dual enrollments, summer programs, online exceptions and the like. Parents of these high achievers are often well-informed about the process and keep the GC’s on their toes. </p>
<p>Still, individual GC’s are quite varied in their knowledge of the process as Marite explains. And since you are assigned alphabetically, you get what you get. We’ve operated under the notion that it was our responsibility to learn about the process and help our kids with their options. I think this thread has done a lot for parents who might think that ED is a fine option since colleges profess to “meet full need.” We did our due diligence and just never saw any advantage for ED. Again I firmly believe, students, not the colleges, should hold the power in the application process.</p>
<p>Xiggi, I’m still waiting for some savvy parent to demand that test scores and the like be removed from the transcripts. We never cared, but I expect some parent will and they will be gone.</p>
<p>And I love Calmom’s poker analogy, now that my husband explained it to me ;). I’ve never been one to like living with the hand you’re dealt!</p>
<p>This is defined by the colleges. If a family disagrees, the burden of proof is on the family to show valid reasons why an award is not adequate.</p>
Every college will handle this in their own way. But all that is necessary for release from ED is that the college and family did not arrive at an agreement on FA.</p>
<p>That is simply a misreading of the ED agreement. The family always has the final say. If it wants to negotiate an increase in the FA award, then clearly it may have to provide additional information. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if they simply want to be released from their commitment, they don’t have to prove anything or show why they can’t pay. They are the sole determinant of the adequacy of the award to meet their needs.</p>
<p>^^ In your pipe dreams.
If the college puts together a FA package that meets 100% of demonstrated need <em>by their criteria</em>, the college has fulfilled it’s end of the ED agreement.</p>
<p>You can always renege, but I hope the punishment matches your lapse in judgement and ethics.</p>
<p>The colleges themselves, quoted many times in this thread, will release the student from ED if the family does not agree to the FA, no matter if the college feels it has met 100% of need or not. And the schools do not call this “reneging” – there is an official financial escape clause built into the ED agreement for FA applicants.</p>
<p>“If a family disagrees, the burden of proof is on the family to show valid reasons why an award is not adequate.”</p>
<p>Not true; there is no burden of proof. It would imply that the school might not accept the evidence the family gives and force attendance. It doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>“If the college puts together a FA package that meets 100% of demonstrated need <em>by their criteria</em>, the college has fulfilled it’s end of the ED agreement.”</p>
<p>This is true, but irrelevant. The family is still free to decline the FA offer without retribution.</p>
<p>Unfortunately is some posters mind, there is no room for common sense. As long as they can rant agianst the big bad college, the 'unjust" financial aid process, find loopholes, game the system, proclaim themselves as self appointed financial aid experts and advise others to follow unethical practices, they seem to be quite happy. A sad state of affairs indeed</p>
No one is advising “unethical” practices. The <em>colleges themselves</em> allow for the release from ED if <em>the family</em> feels it cannot make the FA offer work. These are the rules set forth by the colleges in the ED agreement. There is <em>nothing unethical</em> about backing out for financial reasons. It is officially allowed.</p>
<p>Eric - no, what they are saying is that the GC signs off the ED agreement with the student and their parents - and accordingly, GCs make it very clear up front about the expectations and ramifications of signing an ED agreement. There is nothing the poor GC at the OPs school can do about her gaming the system now - but unfortunately the next time that GC has someone applying to Penn and MIT, it will be harder for them to get admitted because of the actions of the OP. GC’s who have students regularly admitted to top colleges build up a credibility with a school. Part of that credibility is based on GC reports of students, part is making sure they are partenrs in the process and don’t game the system. This credibility is a reason why some GCs are much more successful in getting great admittance results for their students than others.</p>
<p>Also - please read what Sybbie wrote in post 1404 - she probably explains it even better than I do. From her post, it appears she is a HS GC. Here is part of it</p>
<p>While colleges don’t per say “blacklist” schools, you must remember that counselors and college admissions representatives are developing business relationships just like any one else develops business relationships both in and outside or the workplace. I am sure that any of you may have severed relationships with vendors, co-workers, companies depending on how they have treated you are if they have not stood behind their product. You may have stopped shopping at a certain store or eating at a certain restuarant, because of the way you were treated or you felt a person was being disingenuous. It is the same thing with the GC relationship with the college. If the colleges feel that we are unreliable in our business practices and the way we advise our students, they essentially do not want to do business with us and our school, especially when there are thousands of other schools.</p>
<p>And the GCs better tell the applicants that the applicants can get out if the financial package doesn’t work for the applicants. The GCs don’t know what the financial package is in advance and the GCs should make this very clear. And it’s not the GCs money.</p>
<p>And the GCs, I am sure, because they are so knowledgable about finances, would not sell the applicants down the river so the GCs can maintain good relations with the colleges.</p>
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