@psych_ I don’t disagree, there has to be a balance. And with every approach there are positives and negatives. But, seeing pairs of young kids safely getting themselves to and from school, some on one of the largest subway systems in the world is an amazing positive.
@Much2learn excellent points, I very much agree.
@Much2learn excellent points, I very much agree.
Hmmm…aside from walking five miles through three feet of snow, we had similar unemployment and 20% interest rates. We also had to live with the possibility of instant nuclear annihilation. It seems like dealing with whatever extra stress there is in facing more selective admissions at their school of choice would be relatively small.
I also have to point out that test scores continue to trend lower not higher and that the average cost of college at a public school, while higher than in the past, is about $20,000 a year, not $60,000-plus. I’m also skeptical about students selecting more demanding majors in any significant way as Business is still the most common one.
"Hmmm…aside from walking five miles through three feet of snow, we had similar unemployment and 20% interest rates. We also had to live with the possibility of instant nuclear annihilation. It seems like dealing with whatever extra stress there is in facing more selective admissions at their school of choice would be relatively small.
I also have to point out that test scores continue to trend lower not higher and that the average cost of college at a public school, while higher than in the past, is about $20,000 a year, not $60,000-plus. I’m also skeptical about students selecting more demanding majors in any significant way as Business is still the most common one."
- If we are talking about a top 100 school then scores are higher. If we are talking about directional state community college, then scores are lower.
- It actually is tougher today. The middle class is shrinking. Most kids in our generation did better than their parents. Today most will do worse. That creates a lot of pressure.
True business is the most common major, but the competition for top engineering programs is through the roof. They may not be adding many seats, but the applications for each seat and the quality of those applications is up a lot.
My issue with this article is that it asserts declining student resilience without demonstrating it.
A similar example could be that just because more autism cases are being reported in the last 30 years does not mean that there is necessarily more of it. People are more aware of it, feel less stigmatized, and are more likely to seek help. There may be more cases per capita or there may not be, but you can’t just assume there are more because more are reported.
You also certainly can’t assume that more cases of autism are being reported because the families of autistic people have become less resilient and need to whine to someone. That is basically the leap in logic that the article is making about college students.
@Much2learn 1) As a whole, both SAT and ACT scores are on the decline. Students are scoring lower despite tests being reformulated to be easier.
2) The middle class is shrinking because students have less resilience and are unwilling or unable to do what their parents did to get there.
But has the percentage of high school students taking the SAT and/or ACT increased? If so, the additional test takers may be those who previously not have even considered going to college. Also, some states have used the ACT as some sort of universal test for all high school students, adding lower scoring students to the mix.
I want to like #105 three or four times.
Of course, nobody likes to listen to that, because we all like to whine about how horrible the kids are these days. Maybe that’s actually evidence of a lack of resilience on the part of the parents and grandparents?
"Recent examples mentioned included a student who felt traumatized because her roommate had called her a “****” "
Another issue I have with this type of thinking is that it identifies one event as if it is the totality of a persons circumstances.
The person may be dealing with many issues in parallel.
The number of students taking the SAT or ACT has increased substantially. In 1986 around 1 million took SAT and in 2012 1.66 million took it. For ACT, 0.73 million in 1986 and 1.67 million in 2012 (some of these are taking both). Just because scores went down does not mean that comparable students from 1986 and 2012 are doing worse.
My kids took many more AP level classes than I did and did many more outside activities. The kids that got into the Ivys in my graduating class had very good grades and scores and most had a hook of some kind, but none of them has national level awards or honors or did anything extraordinary. I don’t believe that kids today are less resilient. There were kids that failed out of school and (sadly) kids that had major depression or committed suicide back in the 70s and 80s. Mental health issues were very hush hush.
Yes some college kids are special snowflakes that melt too easily. More kids are on medication than ever before. More parents are stepping in when their kid hits a road bump. But more kids at top colleges are hard working and achieving on their own effort.
“More kids…” compared to what?
And what’s the measure of this, because they aren’t taking jobs at any higher rates and they certainly aren’t buying houses
More than those that are not. Most than those that are melting. More than those that are turning to mom and dad when life throws them a curve ball. Achieving AT college.
They aren’t buying houses because they are having more trouble getting well paid jobs, and then are paying off student loans and saving for the very large down payment required for a home, while paying the very high rents in many areas.
Do you really think the current crop of students are slackers compared to their parents? I just don’t see it when comparing my friends and family to my kids and others of their generation.
There’s no question that life is getting easier and the efforts people make to overcome difficulties, both large and small are diminishing.
Over time it becomes a matter of what the norm is. Back when, it was the norm to NOT have a car. Now, you can see how whiney they can be when they are the rare one who doesn’t have access.
We used to be glad for the opportunity to go to college at all. Now, you can see how critical it is that you go to a prestigious one. At least on CC, anyway.
We got a few comments from other parents when our youngest got his jump-stilts for his 12th birthday. He would run around the neighborhood and to school (about a mile) with them on.
One big difference between my kids and my experience from 30 years ago is the ease with which they approach adults. As a kid, I was periodically reminded not to bother the grown-ups under fear of punishment, and that fear followed me to college. My children were much more immersed in the adult world from the beginning. D recently went to her TA to argue over 1 point lost on a physics test, something I never would have done.
Social hierarchy was much more rigidly enforced 30 years ago. When I was a new engineer, the QA manager demanded I call him “Mr. Bumhead” instead of his by first name. That has not been the experience for my kids at all. They refer to their primary care doc as “Wendy”.
It’s hard to take jobs at a higher rate when there are relatively fewer jobs available. (Jobs that one would expect to be provided by older folks, by the way—so what’s up with the older generations being so immature and non-grown-up that they can’t even provide basic jobs?) Also, even aside from the relative lack of jobs and thus income, inflation in the housing sector means that it isn’t always as economically rational to buy a house now as it generally used to be.
I would just like to note that even if it’s true that young people are more likely to seek help for problems than previous generations, this is not evidence that people in the previous generations were more likely to overcome their problems without help.
Completely groundless statement.
There are 6 million job openings; the highest number in the last two or three decades, and the ratio of unemployed persons to job openings is as low or lower than before the Great Recession.
Yes, all the statistics in #117 are correct—but how many of those jobs that are open pay a living wage? And how many of them match the qualifications of the unemployed?
You can’t just say that the unemployed are lazy or non-resilient or such for not taking jobs if the jobs have requirements that the unemployed don’t have and/or that they can’t survive financially on; the first case requires training that may well not be affordable (especially if opportunity costs are taken into account), and the second case is simply a financially rational decision.
I know a fair number of new nursing grads right now. Let’s examine the differences between the employed ones and the unemployed ones.
Unemployed
I only want to work in the ICU.
I don’t want night shift.
I want to work at that hospital.
I don’t want to commute on the bus.
That job is too far from where I want to live.
They pay dirt.
They are elitist.
I didn’t like the interviewer.
Patient load is too high there.
Employed
Well, you should get the idea by now.